Help me out on a few Party $10+1 hands

Delphin · #1 02-07-2005, 04:29 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t925)
CO (t840)
Button (t790)
SB (t740)
BB (t455)
UTG (t1585)
UTG+1 (t725)
MP1 (Villain) (t995)
MP2 (t945)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 (Villain) calls t50, 1 fold, Hero calls t50, CO calls t50, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t225) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Villain checks, Hero bets t125, CO folds, BB folds, Villain calls t125.

Turn: (t475) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets t750 (All-In), Villain calls t750.

River: (t1975) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1975

I really thought I'd be able to buy the pot with my semibluff on the flop. When I got a caller and then the turn gave me the flush draw, I wasn't sure what to do. I felt a like a push had some fold equity and I still had some outs if I was behind (assuming I'm not against a FH / quads). Reasonable way to play it or way too LAG?

I'll post a few more hands from this weekend later.

Thanks for any feedback.

11t · #2 02-07-2005, 04:43 PM

I suspect the other player had the 9 and was slowplaying it or he had the J and felt he had a read on you.

Nice river.

Delphin · #3 02-07-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect the other player had the 9 and was slowplaying it or he had the J and felt he had a read on you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ax diamonds or a pocket pair were the other possibilities I considered. What the other player has is only a small part of the answer to my question.

Ok, you think he has a J or a 9. Should I check and fold then, or is the push an okay play on the turn? Someone with AJo may not want to call getting only 1.6:1 from the pot. A nine is likely to call, but may think he's outkicked by a bigger nine. Even if he calls with his trip 9's I may have up to 10 outs on the river. An Ax suited will likely fold, and a pocket pair will likely fold unless it's an overpair to the board and he thinks I may have a Jack or worse.

[ QUOTE ]
Nice river.

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I thought so too. But my question was about my play, not the outcome.

11t · #4 02-07-2005, 06:46 PM

I think the call on the flop should have set alarms off in your head, he obviously has you beat. I do not think the turn push was good because I think it reaffirms your attempt to buy the pot, or you at the very best you have a J. I think any 9 here calls and a weak player with any J calls or a decent player with j and a good kicker.

Yes you get a variety of hands to fold, but all of those hands fold on the flop IMO. The only hand that calls you is the one that has you beat.

I always try to excercise caution vs ppl who are willing to check-call while HU, they are either terrible, have you beat and know it, or are sitting on a monster and are tryiing to milk you for all you are worth.

I think it is a bad push simply because I would expect a call here and you have risked 100% of your stack on a low% draw on the turn.

AtticusFinch · #5 02-07-2005, 07:11 PM

Semibluffing a draw is a dangerous move with a paired board, and once you're called on the flop, I think you're done with the hand. Without the pair on the board, you have as many as 12 outs if he's not holding Ax of diamonds (Even the Jack of Diamonds, which pairs the board, can give you a straight flush) but with the pair you may be drawing dead or close to it. Find another pot to buy.

Laomedon · #6 02-07-2005, 09:19 PM

This is a hand I normally fold preflop at level 3. That being said, I definitely give up on the hand after the flop call.

lastchance · #7 02-07-2005, 09:26 PM

I'd check flop, maybe I'm weak-tight, but with that board, you probably get paid if you hit, not easy to semibluff.

Yeah, and considering the guy called your bet, take the free card.

Creeper_thp · #8 02-07-2005, 10:10 PM

Forget about the flop bet for a moment (it's questionable, but at least it served a purpose since his call should have told you there's a good chance you're in trouble). Lets put him on at least a jack, and more likely a 9, it's doubtful he's going to fold to your all-in since it's overly aggressive. When he checked to you, he made a mistake, so why not take it? And since he wasn't going to fold, think about if he had pushed all-in. Would you have called? If you had, it would have been a mistake, so the situation is basically the same whether he pushes or you do. Take the free card he stupidly gave you and then play the river as it comes.

As far as you read goes, first of all it's obviously important because it should be determining how you play. Ax diamonds doesn't make any sense. A backdoor flush draw and an overcard doesn't justify calling a more than half pot bet, so throw that out the window. Right now, on the flop, the only thing you're beating is garbage. The only thing that's calling you is non-garbage. So you can assume he's either some sort of mad genius, an absolute idiot, or he has a hand. Assume the latter.

What does the all-in on the turn accomplish? If you think he's got, say, a jack, a smaller value bet looks much more suspicious. All-in says "get out, my hand is weak and I don't want you to call." If I had a jack there, I'd call an all-in in a second. The number of chips you put in the pot doesn't determine how strong a bet is.

Delphin · #9 02-07-2005, 10:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Forget about the flop bet for a moment (it's questionable, but at least it served a purpose since his call should have told you there's a good chance you're in trouble). Lets put him on at least a jack, and more likely a 9, it's doubtful he's going to fold to your all-in since it's overly aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this level ($10+1), do you really have to read a check call as being that strong? I wouldn't rule out the villain just being loose passive with a flush draw, or calling with overcards. I'm still learning and I could be way off.

[ QUOTE ]
When he checked to you, he made a mistake, so why not take it? And since he wasn't going to fold, think about if he had pushed all-in. Would you have called? If you had, it would have been a mistake, so the situation is basically the same whether he pushes or you do. Take the free card he stupidly gave you and then play the river as it comes.

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In retrospect, I can see that I probably should have taken the free card. How to proceed from there assuming the same river card? Bet pot? What if the river were a K or a T? Check/fold?

[ QUOTE ]
As far as you read goes, first of all it's obviously important because it should be determining how you play. Ax diamonds doesn't make any sense. A backdoor flush draw and an overcard doesn't justify calling a more than half pot bet, so throw that out the window. Right now, on the flop, the only thing you're beating is garbage. The only thing that's calling you is non-garbage. So you can assume he's either some sort of mad genius, an absolute idiot, or he has a hand. Assume the latter.

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I agree with your analysis except that I've seen so many players call here with overcards, any pocket pair, etc. I'm looking for a little guidance here from those experienced players who can crush the $10+1 SNGs. Do you always assume that your opponents are playing solid poker? I thought the whole point is to profit from the mistakes of weak players?

[ QUOTE ]
What does the all-in on the turn accomplish? If you think he's got, say, a jack, a smaller value bet looks much more suspicious. All-in says "get out, my hand is weak and I don't want you to call." If I had a jack there, I'd call an all-in in a second. The number of chips you put in the pot doesn't determine how strong a bet is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the detailed analysis. Replies like this definitely are helping out my game.

Delphin · #10 02-07-2005, 11:55 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (3 handed) converter

Hero (t3104)
SB (t2950)
BB (t1946)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t800, 1 fold, BB raises to t1946 (All-In), Hero ???

Should I have pushed first instead of minraising? Given the all-in reraise here call or fold?