10+1 gold mine dried up, need your advice

[MagnoliasFM]

Hi, this is my first post here, although I've been reading these forums for about a year. I've always been too busy playing poker, doing homework, or attending business meetings to post on here, but I've noticed a change in the 10+1 tournaments recently and, after reading the topic "WTF, super tight 10+1," I realized that I wasn't the only one who noticed it.

I'm a 17 year old college student and I've been playing 10+1's for about half a year for spending money. I've been playing poker since age 14 and by age 16 I was a regular at the Commerce Casino 4/8 games, (lol). Since then I've moved on to college so Party Poker is the only way I can play poker regularly. I've read all the books and most of the posts, and I've found that, just like the stock market, you shouldn't trust all advice, because everyone has their own interests and a lot of the time they're just trying to make you a worse player to benefit themselves. However, I know that there are a few good and smart people here who know what they're talking about. You know who you are. That's why I'm posting. Ever since I downloaded the 2Plus2SNG spreadsheet, I've played in 412 10+1's and my ROI is 47.1% with a 46.1% ROI. I usually do not have the time to actually focus on the game so I only do 4 tables at a time. The stategy I used was my own, and it involved almost no post-flop play (very similar to Sklansky's "System"). Once it got down to level 4, there were usually only a few players left and blindly going all-in on every hand made me a winner a very large percentage of the time.

However, there has been a recent phenomenon that has occurred and 7-8 players are frequently seen on level 4. Now I actually have to "play poker" by doing things other than going all-in. At the 10+1 level, and that's something I don't really care to do. However, I'm not bad at post-flop play, and I am trying to think of an alternative to 10+1's. I've experimented with 2-table SNG's, Steps, and MTT's, and found them all to be long-term profitable, but they all take way too much time to be used for anything but entertainment, and I don't exactly have the bankroll for Steps or high buy-in MTT's.

I was thinking that since the 10+1 tables are now as tight as 20+2 and beyond tables have traditionally been, I might as well finally move up in level. I know how to adjust my play to tighter players, and I am willing to pay attention to playing poker (instead of talking to people on AIM or playing the guitar like I normally do during 4 10+1 tourneys, lol). Can some of you 20+2 or 30+3 pros give me some advice to start me out? I've tried a few 20+2's and what usually happens is at the beginning rounds I increase my stack to about 1000 or 1100 by stealing small pots from super predictable fish, but I have a lot less double-ups than I would at the old 10+1s (because noone calls all-ins with A-x PF or top pair crap kicker anymore). Then by 50-100 blind time, everyone has less than 10BB's and they keep going all in! (Instead of just calling and continuing to play their normal fish game) So basically I'm forced to flip a coin to stay alive, and even if I win 1 double-up coinflip I'm not even guaranteed to cash like I used to be, because of the large field.

The main thing I need help on is a good strategy to use when everyone else has 10BBs or less and there's 7-8 players left. My long-handed deep stack play is pretty good, and so is my short-handed shallow stack play. Crap, I have to go to a meeting now, I didn't realize I'd been writing for so long. If I have anything to add I'll reply later. Okay, so if you guys have any suggestions, please reply.

Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[1C5]

Hi, welcome to the board.

First, I don't think people here give "bad advice" to benefit them in an indirect way.

Secondly, many people will say your 46% ROI is a fluke, and if you ROI is that high, what is the problem? Or did it drop to -20 overnight?

So your strategy of going all in every hand no longer works and *gasp*, you actually have to play some poker to win money at the $11 level. If the game changes, you have to change also. Many posts discuss the questions you posed which will give you a good place to start.

[Mr_J]

If your ROI is >40% over 416 or whatever sngs, maybe you should just move up?

[El Maximo]

I agree that the 10s have changed slightly. But they certainly havent dried up. Im currently on 4 that are all 6 handed in level 2 and 3.

Just had someone call my AK raise with a 59o and go all-in on a AK5 flop. Things havent dried up at all.

[MagnoliasFM]

I love bringing my laptop to meetings [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Just to clarify a couple things, I had a few typos and I meant to say 47.1 ROI and 46.1 ITM. Also, by 50-100 I meant 100-200...and by level 4 I meant level 5.

Also, I didn't post because I had a losing streak, I posted because seeing as how the 10+1 players have become a lot tighter in earlier rounds and a lot more willing to go all in in the later rounds as of late, it might be impossible to maintain my level of success using an optimal strategy. (That is to say, before there were many different ways to get above a sustainable 40% ROI, now there may be zero).

I've looked through the other posts and haven't found a lot of mention about full handed play where everyone is shortstacked (a "typical speed tournament" scenario), and that is the type of information I'm looking for.

Also, I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone. What I meant to say is, some books out there (such as Hellmuth's infamous PPLTP and that Cloutier book) shouldn't be taken literally.


p.s. well maybe they haven't DRIED UP, but I still want to move up in level, owing to plays such as one I saw the other day, where a supposed $10 fish went all-in in a late stage with J8o trying to steal the blinds. This is something a pro would do, and I'd never seen it done by a $10 fish. This terrified me and I panicked and I started thinking that maybe there are actually some "non-fish" at the 10+1 level now...which is why I want to move up so I can force myself to pay attention.

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
p.s. well maybe they haven't DRIED UP, but I still want to move up in level, owing to plays such as one I saw the other day, where a supposed $10 fish went all-in in a late stage with J8o trying to steal the blinds. This is something a pro would do, and I'd never seen it done by a $10 fish. This terrified me and I panicked and I started thinking that maybe there are actually some "non-fish" at the 10+1 level now...which is why I want to move up so I can force myself to pay attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

???

Blind-stealing is now a "pro" move?!? Maybe you should sweat all the "pros" at NL25 with theredpill.

[MagnoliasFM]

It's not the blind stealing that scares me. It's the fact that he went all-in without A-x, a pocket pair, or two face cards (which is all that bad players like going all-in with).

[rachelwxm]

I wish I have some advice to improve your 47% ROI.

[mungpo]

The $11's have not dried up. There are still plenty of games that can easily be beat at these levels. If your ROI is as high as you make it out to be, then I would be looking to move up to the $22's.

[1C5]

I really don;t think the 10s will be drying up anytime soon and even more so now with the new poker tournaments coming on TV next month to bring even more players to Party. Anyone agree with me that the games will be fine for a while?