Those loose passive home games

Bigwig · #1 02-02-2005, 03:14 AM

Seems like most home games I play in are full of loose passive yucks who call a huge percentage of hands preflop, bet the minimum, and chase every gutshot and bottom pair they hit.

I was busted out of a tourney on Sunday when I was short stacked, and faced 4 limpers in the BB. I hit top pair and went all in for like 260 chips in a pot of 200. I got four callers. WTF? Turns out one guy pocket K's. I have no idea what the others had, because by the river they ended up folding.

The same guy who limped with pocket K's limped with pocket J's in an early tournament. I busted him with my pocket K's, but this kind of play makes it difficult to put any of these fools on a hand.

I'm playing with most of them again this Superbowl Sunday. So, questions:

Should I mirror their loose preflop play and see a lot of flops to try and trap them with a big hand? Because they bet the minimum constantly, won't I get odds to simply call draws? Should I also play my big hands carefully? They often call preflop raises with hands like 66, then call down a bet or two on flops with overcards. AK can get me in trouble in this game due to their own ignorance.

How best to play these opponents, who I am not used to?

Iamafish · #2 02-02-2005, 09:53 AM

Its hard to explain this correctly in short.

Just take everything they do and use it to your advantage. You should probably tighten up a lot, wait for a monster and trap them. You can even loose a few perpously with like Q 2 or something to let them know you suck to [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img].

If they PFR with 66, dont PFR at all, even with AK AA KK, then reraise them. Also if your playing no limit try to get all in like that, it seems like youll make it.

Id trap as much as possible and show junk hands that dont cost much.

I think your the type of person that needs to put thought into these kinds of things. I guess you can take a pen and write down everthing they do, and write down what you should do to counter it (this will help a lot becuase your going to apply your own style of play which suits you).

Hope that helps.

-Fishy

jojobinks · #3 02-02-2005, 10:26 AM

-continue to bet your big starting hands.
-limp way more often, looking to catch big flops. these guys bet the minimum, but will call big bets.
-bet for value
-draw when you're getting odds.

don't trap: they aren't paying attention.
Don't limp with KK or AA: they aren't paying attention
Don't semi-bluff: they won't fold enough
Don't bluff: they aren't paying attention
Don't advertise: they aren't paying attention

these situations call for sound, fundamental poker. don't try to deceive these guys. play your hands for exactly what they're worth.

this is very different advice than the post above, btw.

Bigwig · #4 02-02-2005, 10:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
this is very different advice than the post above, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I like yours better. A lot better.

Funny how the buy-ins we'll play on Sunday will be higher than I normally play ($50-$100 vs. $30+3), but the play will be significantly crappier.

I already scratched semi-bluffing from my mind. They just don't understand what that kind of raise means.

two_dogs · #5 02-02-2005, 10:50 AM

Yeah I agree completely.Ihave found a few home tourneys of late and they are very profitable. i would warn about co-ordinated boards. Any of them even if you preflop raise big a 235 board can be trouble as an ace four off may call(I'm serious).Which brings up a question about betting post flop with draws on the board.These folks don't understand pot odds at all and even though it is a mathematical advantage to have them make mistakes they will suck out and bust you ocasionally. Whats the best line in these situations I have been scaling back the bets a little and pulling back if a scare card comes.

Bigwig · #6 02-02-2005, 11:00 AM

Scaling back your bets is not a bad idea for several reasons:

1. They're almost as likely to call a pot sized bet as one that is 1/2. The differential, at least, is small enough that it's hard to justify the full pot bet.
2. When a scare card drops, and they don't have the draw, they won't recognize the chance to bluff (this applies mostly when you're out of position).
3. When they do hit their hand, they'll bet too much or too little, making it easy for you to choose calling or folding.

etgryphon · #7 02-02-2005, 11:00 AM

Remember on a draw heavy board with loose passive players you can assume they are on the draw. Make the pot odds incorrect to play and if the draw hits don't give them the implied odds. If the draw hits go into check-call or check-fold mode and just realize you made them pay all those other times that they chased.

You have to look at it in the big picture. Don't make their play "correct" by paying off the implied odds.

-Gryph

Bigwig · #8 02-02-2005, 11:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Remember on a draw heavy board with loose passive players you can assume they are on the draw. Make the pot odds incorrect to play and if the draw hits don't give them the implied odds. If the draw hits go into check-call or check-fold mode and just realize you made them pay all those other times that they chased.

You have to look at it in the big picture. Don't make their play "correct" by paying off the implied odds.

-Gryph

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is true.

But I would worry about this more later in the tourney, rather than early when the pots are small. Players like this tend to look at total chip bets, rather than their ratio to pot/blind size.

And it is also dependent on the number of players seeing the flop--obviously. However, I've found that many of these players will often just be calling with top pair weak kicker, or mid pair good kicker, etc. By checking the river on a scare card and not calling a reasonable bet, you may be giving them too much credit. By keeping the pot small, you can keep your losses to a minimum when they do hit their hand.

two_dogs · #9 02-02-2005, 11:38 AM

Another thought.I wouldn't try to steal late unless I noticed some tightening up of the players.Maybe a comment on the bubble like "we're almost to the money" will work on these guys.But I wouldn't risk alot.

etgryphon · #10 02-02-2005, 11:53 AM

I agree with you Bigwig...

But, most of the time that these people make their hand they let you know which is why you can go into check\call and check\fold mode. I don't think that you immeadiately go into that c\c or c\f mode if the scare card comes. I just think that the switch should be flipped in your mind to go that way if they start to wake up. They will give you more opportunities especially if they are successful.

-Gryph