A TT hand

jailhousejoe · #1 01-26-2005, 10:04 AM

Right.. did I get the most out of this? Had a read and stats on UTG+2 as tight, albeit over about only 50 hands. Should I a) have capped the flop, b) have gone for a c/r or check-call on the flop (my thinking was that with 3 players paying a raise to see that flop, someone must have hit something, or at least have a decent draw..).

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

27offsooot · #2 01-26-2005, 10:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Right.. did I get the most out of this? Had a read and stats on UTG+2 as tight, albeit over about only 50 hands. Should I a) have capped the flop, b) have gone for a c/r or check-call on the flop (my thinking was that with 3 players paying a raise to see that flop, someone must have hit something, or at least have a decent draw..).

[/ QUOTE ]

a.) I assume you mean pre-flop. With position and an overcall, re-raiser (which doesn't usually have a monster), I would cap the flop knowing that you have two others to tag along and position. If BB and UTG fold, it's even better with a lot of dead money in the pot and a very vulnerable hand.

b.) Not sure how u can check-raise or check-call the flop when you're last to act. Since you're last to act and you raised PF, people expect you to bet. So bet.

jailhousejoe · #3 01-26-2005, 10:35 AM

a) yep pre-flop.. figured as much.

b) I was concentrating more on the poker and less on the posting i think here! I meant, should i have checked on the flop, with the idea of inducing a bluff on the turn (which of course I would raise) for an extra bet? Or is that too dangerous with that board?

The reason for the odd playing of this hand (and the post itself), is twofold.. 1, I'm reasonably new to the game, and 2, it seems from my PT data, that i dont make much money from my pocket pair's (22-TT) when I hit a set. Certainly not as much as SSHE and other books suggest.

Thanks for the reply.

Harv72b · #4 01-26-2005, 11:49 AM

The problem with sets is that you'll usually only win a big pot if someone else makes a good second best hand, and/or there are some draws present to keep people in the hand.

Sometimes you will see a player limp first in with a high pocket pair (AA-KK usually), and then 3-bet if it is raised behind him. However, you will very rarely see this play from someone who was second into the pot...it's more likely in this case that UTG+2 has some sort of suited hand and decided to 3-bet as last to act, to build up the pot in case he does flop a draw. Either that, or he just got frustrated by the PFR behind him.

Anyway, your specific questions...
A) Yes, cap this pre-flop. For one because of the reasoning above, and more important because with a hand like TT, you want to be heads up on the flop. Facing BB & UTG with 2 cold is the best chance you have of accomplishing that.
B) You absolutely, positively, must bet this flop 100% of the time, especially with 3 opponents. The QT combination, even while it's not suited, offers a lot of potential straight draws to your typically played hands, and even if you have a good redraw to the FH, you can't let them draw for free. Besides which, it is far more likely that your opponents will call 1 on the flop (or be attempting a c/r with a Q) than call 1 if it's checked to you again on the turn.

Fat Nicky · #5 01-26-2005, 11:51 AM

I know this sucks, but there is nothing more you can do here. Having this flop check-through is proposterous.

MarkD · #6 01-26-2005, 11:54 AM

Should I a) have capped the flop
Yes you should - but you can't, no one bet the flop. It was checked to you. I know you meant to say pre-flop but it's important to get the terminology down so I'm being a dick.

b) have gone for a c/r or check-call on the flop (my thinking was that with 3 players paying a raise to see that flop, someone must have hit something, or at least have a decent draw..).

You are last to act. Exactly how do you expect to check raise here? How do you plan on check calling? NO ONE IS LEFT TO ACT BEHIND YOU. You must bet.