99 out of position in a tough spot...

Fnord · #1 01-26-2005, 02:18 AM

Table has some loose/passive spots in this hand.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Fnord raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Fnord bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Fnord checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Button calls, Fnord folds...

Harv72b · #2 01-26-2005, 02:20 AM

1 bettor & 2 callers...I'd say that's a pretty safe fold.

arkady · #3 01-26-2005, 02:37 AM

Despite the table dynamic you described I am not a huge fan of raising 99 out of BB with that many limpers.

Nope not a fan.

Rest is routine.

Fnord · #4 01-26-2005, 02:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Despite the table dynamic you described I am not a huge fan of raising 99 out of BB with that many limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what really put me in this spot. With position it would be a lot easier to play this out. I guess 99 kinda maps to AJ/KQ in terms of how they really want position? What should my pre-flop thought process here be with TT and 99?

Fnord · #5 01-26-2005, 02:55 AM

Thinking about this more....

I'm pretty sure 99 has an equity edge here, but the raise makes post-flop more difficult to play as you've established yourself as the aggressor out of position and built a pot large enough that lots of worse hands can chase you down and better hands can draft you.

I see a lot in common here with the AK out of the BB argument. However, in that case you have so much pre-flop equity that you can't expect to make-up by not raising.

arkady · #6 01-26-2005, 02:58 AM

Yes I agree that its very similar to raising AK out of BB, which I almost always do. You are thinking essentially you have the best hand NOW and that is pretty apparent due to the limping. However AK plays differentely IMO.

If you raise 99 and all unders flop, cool! But what happens if you get 1, 2, 3 overs? You are either done right there or possibly at best drawing to 2 outs. You almost never know where you stand and its just an icky situation. With AK you generally have 6 outs, which sure as hell beats 2 outs and if you indeed hit your A and K, you are in much better shape than if you were to flop just unders w/99 and have 3-5 limpers to dodge.

I am rambling, but I think you *might* see my point...if I even have one.