T8s, steal attempt -- I don't know about this one

Nick C · #1 01-25-2005, 05:57 AM

Villain is 34/0/1.2 after 47 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Thoughts?

BigDan9 · #2 01-25-2005, 07:56 AM

I think you have to know your players pretty well to try stealing in that spot, with those cards, at small stakes (where bluffing just isn't as effective). Still, since you almost managed to steal the blinds and hit top pair on the flop, I'd say the mistake was raising on the turn.

If he's called a raise, called you on the river and then bet into you on the turn, I think you have to credit the Villain for something better than top pair + weak kicker (although it was poor play by him if he called just one other player, pre-flop, with a couple of low spades).

I'd let the hand go after his bet on the turn or, if you think there might just be a chance he really could be playing with a worse hand than yours, call and see what the river brings. Raising seems too aggressive in that situation to me.

spydog · #3 01-25-2005, 09:26 AM

I just call his turn bet. Raising and folding to a 3-bet costs the same as calling down, but you fail to get to showdown while 1) possibly being ahead and 2) having outs. If he's bluffing, then he may fold to your turn raise, which is bad.

IndieMatty · #4 01-25-2005, 10:58 AM

Dude, fold pre-flop. This is just an excuse to lag out. Steal attempts in MP in 2-4 are NOT a good idea.

Raising the turn is silly.

djoyce003 · #5 01-25-2005, 11:04 AM

I think your chances of stealing from MP in a 2/4 game is close to zero. Given that is the case, you can maybe lower your raising standards to slightly worse hands, like queen 10 off, or something, but not 10 8.

MoreWineII · #6 01-25-2005, 12:09 PM

omg Super Tecmo Bowl!

Oh yah, I agree about the hand. If I were going to steal from MP3 in a SS game, I'd prefer a little more high card strengf. And I severely dislike the turn raise and subsequent fold.

spydog · #7 01-25-2005, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, fold pre-flop. This is just an excuse to lag out. Steal attempts in MP in 2-4 are NOT a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recently played 2/4 during my challenge and found the tables on the weak-tight side. Based on the average table (from what I saw), I would openraise this from CO and the button.

I also play European daytime, which I think might be tighter.

But, reads would be helpful when posting this hand.

Nick C · #8 01-25-2005, 02:07 PM

For what it's worth, I was actually in the CO. I would have corrected it, but I didn't notice the converter had called me MP3.

I don't use the raise-fold line (or, in this case, free showdown raise, which is what I had in mind) as much as some others here, and I thought I might've picked a bad time (which has now been confirmed).

Should I have just called down after I got bet into on the turn?

Nick C · #9 01-25-2005, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And I severely dislike the turn raise and subsequent fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I have top pair and a gutshot, but my feeling was the turn 3-bet indicated I was very likely behind, quite possibly to a made flush, straight, or set. (My opponent didn't really seem all that aggressive, usually.)

What do you have him on that I want to draw against? And do you think there's still a decent chance I'm ahead? (Do you think I should call unimproved on the river?)

PokeHer · #10 01-25-2005, 04:10 PM

The problem with steal raises (even ones that don't necessarily look like it) is that some people over defend their blinds and will raise and keep raising with nada. So, unless you are holding something that is very strong, i think it is best to play these hands conservatively, which means just call down if they lead out. call this weak tight if you want, but my feelings are that being overly aggro with marginal hands in this situation will end up costing you money in the long run.