Stop and Go with Ajo, would be very interested in your thoughts.

partygirluk · #1 01-18-2005, 09:23 AM

I am down to 435 after having my AA cracked by KT. The blinds are 100/200 and Mr. KT limps in on the button. He likes to do this and I am certain that my AJo in the BB is best.

However, if I push he has to call 200 into a 735 pot, which he will, and which will not be a mistake. So I decide to check, and push any flop.

We are about 6 handed and he has about 5500.

Sam T. · #2 01-18-2005, 09:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
We are about 6 handed and he has about 5500.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming this refers to the table, not the number of players limping, I like it.

That said, with 5500, if he catches even a whiff of the flop, you're getting called. Which is okay...

TylerD · #3 01-18-2005, 09:47 AM

Doesn't seem like it would make much difference considering his stack size. I take it SB folded?

EDIT: If you think there's any chance he'll fold its worth it so you might as well try it.

partygirluk · #4 01-18-2005, 09:56 AM

Yes, SB folded.

Say he does have QTo and the flop comes Axx or Jxx.

Then if I bet and he calls, he is making a mistake! I dont mind if he calls. And on the Jxx flop I dont mind that much if he folds either.

rachelwxm · #5 01-18-2005, 05:28 PM

There are 4 different possibilities assume he has average holding of K8 for example:
you goal is to see whether SNG is better or just push PF (he would call of course). Assuming he would fold if not hitting flop, here is the possible situations:

1. you hit flop, he miss (SNG is worse since he is getting 1:3 to draw 3 outer)
2. you miss and he miss (SNG is similar to push PF, your hand is better but he is getting odds to draw, but folding is not bad)
3. you miss and he hit (SNG is worse since half of times if he hit K you are not getting 1:3 odds to draw)
4. both of you hit (similar to 2)

So overall, I think SNG is worse option since SNG is close to push in 2 and 4 and worse in 1 and 3. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

To simplify, if you believe you have best hand PF, you have to charge opponent maximum to see all five cards.

partygirluk · #6 01-18-2005, 05:37 PM

Hi Rachel,

I don't understand your logic. Lets say I hit the flop and push, and he has 3:1 for a 3 outer. He is making a mistake to call. Him calling is Chip EV positive, but I am not sure about total EV. And if he folds, well that is not so bad either. I at least gave him a chance to make a mistake, unlike pushing PF.

rachelwxm · #7 01-18-2005, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Rachel,

I don't understand your logic. Lets say I hit the flop and push, and he has 3:1 for a 3 outer. He is making a mistake to call. Him calling is Chip EV positive, but I am not sure about total EV. And if he folds, well that is not so bad either. I at least gave him a chance to make a mistake, unlike pushing PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how many people left, but I imagine chipEV is fairly close to EV since you are very short stacked. The fact the chips is more precious to you does not change the picture.

Let's say if you hit a jack on flop and he missed, he is getting 1:3 to draw to a 3 outer, so you want him to call. Which is why you push PF. Needless to say if you hit ace.

Similarly for 1-4. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Irieguy · #8 01-18-2005, 06:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am certain that my AJo in the BB is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fundamental stop and go concept is that you want your opponent to fold. You know he wont fold preflop, so you stop and go because you feel he may fold post flop.

If you are certain you are ahead, a stop and go is the wrong play.

Irieguy

schwza · #9 01-18-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Rachel,

I don't understand your logic. Lets say I hit the flop and push, and he has 3:1 for a 3 outer. He is making a mistake to call. Him calling is Chip EV positive, but I am not sure about total EV. And if he folds, well that is not so bad either. I at least gave him a chance to make a mistake, unlike pushing PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think with such a tiny stack you should be willing to take 0 EV gambles so that you can get some stack and don't have to take negative EV gambles like being pot committed on your BB.

could be way off though.

The Yugoslavian · #10 01-18-2005, 06:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am down to 435 after having my AA cracked by KT. The blinds are 100/200 and Mr. KT limps in on the button. He likes to do this and I am certain that my AJo in the BB is best.

However, if I push he has to call 200 into a 735 pot, which he will, and which will not be a mistake. So I decide to check, and push any flop.

We are about 6 handed and he has about 5500.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had perhaps, 96 here instead of AJ a stop n go is probably a good idea (but you're most likely screwed anyway) since you can't get away from so many dead chips in the pot and certainly cannot get him to laydown his hand preflop. The thing about AJ is that if the flop comes out and misses him (the only time he'd then fold) you are going to be ahead anyway so you're not gaining any wanted FE. When you have a hand that figures to be behind on the flop, having that little bit of FE is helpful b/c there is a chance you can get your opponent to lay down his unimproved but better hand.

For example, let's say that you have 96o and your opponent had J8o -- board comes KQ2. You *might* get your opponent to fold here on the flop. However, with AJ you'll be ahead here anyway.

Yugoslav