Cash from pocket as a raise?

[RyanTaylor]

This is a question of whether or not cash can be played from the pocket in a game where chips have to be purchased. The situation from which the question arose is this:

5 person game, $1/2 blinds, no limit

I hold [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 in BB
Next two people fold
Button (loose, position player) calls with rags
SB (very loose agressive) limps with [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K

flop is [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4

SB raises $3
I call
Button folds

Turn is inconsequential

SB bets $5
I call to give the illusion of holding Ace high (a hand ive become popular for winning with)

River helps no one

BB puts me all in (about $15)
I call, but stand up and raise $65 cash from my wallet.
BB puts me on a bluff and calls
I show my 4 of a kind, he is completely broke.

So, once again, can I use cash in a chip game? Was I allowed to raise from my wallet and was the BB required to protect the his chips with outside cash? The agreement in our game is that he could have told me no outside cash, but was allowed to call my cash bet at his discretion. Any opinions?

[guller]

I don't like it. You should have been all in. Table stakes is the way to go, what's on the table is it.

If he would have reraised you more money than you had in your wallet would you have to fold the hand?

Gull

[dingoeater]

As its a home game and ye play it that its at his discretion to accept the bet or not, then you're perfectly entitled to do it in my oipinion.

[YTV]

No cash should come out of anyones pockets. If money is on the table with your chips BEFORE the deal, that can be used.

[aaronjacobg]

I think that it should be allowed but it should be completely separate from the betting in the hand. Like a prop bet, he could say, "I bet that the five card hand that i can make with my down cards is better than yours." The hand itself is done and the hand can no longer be folded due to a bet but more bets can happen.

Jake

[RunDownHouse]

Why didn't you go to the ATM real quick to get even more cash than you had on you?

[Jersey Nick]

[ QUOTE ]
The agreement in our game is that he could have told me no outside cash, but was allowed to call my cash bet at his discretion.

[/ QUOTE ]
And here is where the point lays - if the house (in this case "our game") says you can, then you can. The term "table stakes" means that you can only bet the chips you have on the table. I personally prefer table stakes but my (our) opinions doesn't really matter, since your game doesn't play table stakes.

[Gbob]

Gotta agree with the other posters that house rules determine what's acceptable, but my view is that this is a bad play. The chips in front of you should be the only money in play. To bring in extra money out of your pocket seems to me to the equivalent of brining in extra money to a monopoly game. House rules may allow it, but that doesn't make it right.

Now is it was purely a side bet (ie money in your pocket against money from his pocket) then I have less objections, but if you took his chips out of play that other players could have won, than you gave yourself an unfair advantage.

Then again, how many folks bet into us when you're holding 4 of a kind? Your exuberance can be, I feel, easily forgiven. The other players should have raised the objection.

[smoore]

If it's allowed by the house rules, it's allowed. Because you posted it I imagine that some tension arose. I would bring up a recommendation for going to table stakes at the next game.

[Mojo Tooth]

Big-bet poker (no-limit and pot limit) MUST be table stakes. Any other way is just completely unfair. If you have money that you want to wager with, then that money must be available for other people to see and attack (or avoid) should they choose to do so.

Picture the following scenario.

- Player A has only six dollars in chips remaining, but has $100 in his pocket.

- Player B has forty dollars in chips remaining and nothing in his pocket and is in the big blind.

- Player A doubles the blind and everybody folds to player B, who sees player A only has a couple bucks left so he knows his exposure is limited. He has no way of knowing how much cash B has hidden away, and if he asks, that gives a lot of information to B.

- Player A and B both get a piece of the flop, so A bets out. Suddenly B draws a Benjamin out of his pocket and slams it on the table. A would never have played the hand if he had realized that money was in play.

Now, of course it was heads-up and your opponent could have refused to honor the cash portion of your bet. At this point you're just getting into generally skeezy territory where someone might, on the spur of the moment, pull out more money than they can really afford to risk and put it on the table.

In limit poker, at least, someone could be allowed to call (not raise) out of their pocket, simply because their potential exposure is limited. But for NL and PL, it's just a bad bad bad idea in my opinion.