too tight early in STT?

schwza · #1 01-11-2005, 11:21 AM

50+5 STT at party. first hand of the tournament, 10/15, everyone has 1000.

i am in the BB with AQo. 4 limpers, SB completes, i check.

flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot = 90)

SB checks, i check, 1 limper checks, MP limper bets 110, and it's folded to me. i fold.

is this overly tight? i figured with 5 others seeing the flop, the odds were not great that i was ahead, and i was either going to win a small one or lose my stack. also the slight overbet made it more difficult to make a play like c/r'ing the flop and plan on folding to a 3bet.

edited to say: i did not have a backdoor flush draw.

Shajen · #2 01-11-2005, 11:23 AM

yes

vindikation · #3 01-11-2005, 12:27 PM

I would call, if another Ace or a Queen falls without another [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you might be able to take down the pot. Then again with all of the limpers you might be up against a set or 2 pair already. I'd at least see the turn though.

schwza · #4 01-11-2005, 12:28 PM

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yes

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and so your line instead would be....

schwza · #5 01-11-2005, 12:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would call, if another Ace or a Queen falls without another [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you might be able to take down the pot. Then again with all of the limpers you might be up against a set or 2 pair already. I'd at least see the turn though.

[/ QUOTE ]

my problem with check-calling was that i would still have no idea where i stood on the turn. if it's a brick (or an ace), i don't know if i'm up against AK/AJ/A8, or against AT/A9. or a semi-bluff that's continuing.

i also feared a c/r behind me. i really didn't like my line, but i still can't think of one that i like better.

El Maximo · #6 01-11-2005, 12:42 PM

Why not make a 3/4 to pot-size bet on the flop? If you get played back at you can go from there. I want to charge any draws and I want to get some info on where Im at. If I take down the pot than so be it.

Unarmed · #7 01-11-2005, 12:42 PM

I fold this as well schwaza, there's a good chance you get C/R here and even when you do you can't be sure its the heart draw because the EP players could have been sandbagging to the PF raiser so they could hang him when he autobets.

You decided to play the AQ for two-pair value PF. Don't go changing your mind just because the ace flopped.

That said, I raise this PF. I know you don't want to play a big pot out of position with AQ but by not raising here you're turning your AQo into 75o. Multi-way flops are not kind to TP2K, as you know, but you did this to yourself by not raising PF.

EDIT: BTW, is this your line PF at ring NL as well or just SNGs to reduce variance? I know you're 100x better at NL than I am so perhaps my thinking is flawed.

Stupendous_Man · #8 01-11-2005, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
50+5 STT at party. first hand of the tournament, 10/15, everyone has 1000.

i am in the BB with AQo. 4 limpers, SB completes, i check.

flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot = 90)

SB checks, i check, 1 limper checks, MP limper bets 110, and it's folded to me. i fold.

is this overly tight? i figured with 5 others seeing the flop, the odds were not great that i was ahead, and i was either going to win a small one or lose my stack. also the slight overbet made it more difficult to make a play like c/r'ing the flop and plan on folding to a 3bet.

edited to say: i did not have a backdoor flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't you lead out with a bet on the flop? [ QUOTE ]
i figured with 5 others seeing the flop, the odds were not great that i was ahead

[/ QUOTE ] With top pair of A's and Q kicker, you're not behind too many hands on the flop. Obviously, there are lots of draws out there. With no PFRs, I'm discounting the likelihood of AA, AK, and JJ, which would make me want to lead out. I wouldn't go nuts like some people like to do, but I wouldn't play it this weak.

vindikation · #9 01-11-2005, 12:45 PM

Yeah I kind of thought of that after I made the post, you don't really know where you stand by calling.

If you raise his 110, then you'll find out where you are if anyone else calls. But then on the turn you're basically comitted to betting regardless of the card.

Damn I can see a case for calling, raising and folding. I'd still just call. Then again I only play $10+1 SnG's so I don't know anything about the $50's.

A preflop raise seems like the best advice.

Stupendous_Man · #10 01-11-2005, 12:51 PM

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Damn I can see a case for calling, raising and folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you not have lead out with the betting and make the other player question what you have? If you keep this line (checking), then I think there's only a case for folding or raising. I don't think calling gains you any knowledge, IMO.