New U.S. Attorney General : Be afraid

[Cyrus]

This is the man whose job includes the protection of citizens' rights and the upholding of the laws? ...Be very afraid.

[ QUOTE ]
The Justice Department in 2002 asserted that President Bush's wartime powers superseded anti-torture laws and treaties.
Gonzales, while at the White House, wrote similar memos. The original documents set up a legal framework that led to abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, in Afghanistan and at the U.S. prison camp for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay.
The Justice memos have since been disavowed and the White House says the United States has always operated under the spirit of the Geneva Conventions that prohibit violence, torture and humiliating treatment.


[/ QUOTE ]


CNN Report

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[Broken Glass Can]

The rules for enemy combatants in a foreign conflict are different, my point below is strictly about domestic Justice policy:

True freedom in a society comes from balancing the rights of the accused and the rights of the public at large. In the past we have gone too far in one direction and the safety of the public at large has been compromised. We need to be tough on criminals, we need to close the loopholes that let people out on technicalities, we need to allow citizens to defend themselves within reason (guns are good for this [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]), and so forth.

Gonzales is going to be a great AG, and don't forget, he knows what it is like to be a minority in this country (after all he's a Republican [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img], oh and hispanic too).

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
True freedom in a society comes from balancing the rights of the accused and the rights of the public at large.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where is this found in the Constitution? I suppose it is implicitly there (i.e. the 5th amendment says that an individual can't be denied life, liberty or property without due process of law ---- implicit in that is the right of society to take life, liberty and property with due process of law.)

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]
Where is this found in the Constitution?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can find it right next to the phrases:

"right to privacy"

and

"wall of separation between church and state"

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
Where is this found in the Constitution?


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You can find it right next to the phrases:

"right to privacy"

and

"wall of separation between church and state"

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not asking for the particular quotes (which, of course, you know). I'm asking for where the idea is found in the Constitution. It very well might be there (as I suggested in my original response.)

The ideas of a right to privacy and a wall of separation between church and state are both found within the constitution.

[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]
The ideas of a right to privacy and a wall of separation between church and state are both found within the constitution.

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I disagree. What chain of logic gets you from the words of the constitution to these concepts? (one of which comes from a Jefferson letter, the other from the imaginations of some justices).

[elwoodblues]

Implicit in many of the protections afforded by the Constitution is the idea that people have the right to be left alone from government intervention. Absent such a penumbral right (to quote the supreme court) the amendments themselves lack life and substance. Places where a right to privacy is implicit in the Consitution:

First Amendment - The right of association (for example)

Third Amendment - prohibition against the quartering of soldiers 'in any house'

Fourth Amendment - explicitly affirms the 'right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures.'

Fifth Amendment - elf-Incrimination Clause enables the citizen to create a zone of privacy which government may not force him to surrender to his detriment

The 4th and 5th together have been read as protection against all governmental invasions 'of the sanctity of a man's home and the privacies of life'

Ninth Amendment - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people



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I suspect that you already know that people get the idea of a wall of separation between church and state from the language of the first amendment which prohibits the government from both establishing and prohibiting the free exercise of religion coupled with the Jefferson letter (i.e. original intent of the framers --- or at least one important framer)

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. What chain of logic gets you from the words of the Constitution to these concepts? (One of which comes from a Jefferson letter, the other from the imaginations of some Justices).

[/ QUOTE ]

It is important that you realize that the laws in America do not mean what I say they mean, or you or anybody else says -- but what the courts say they mean, i.e. "some Justices".

The la,w in the Anglo-Saxon legal system, is applied as interpreted by the courts. This is a basic tenet of American society.

Now, the courts have indeed interpreted the wording of the First Amendment of the US Constitution to mean precisely this: the separation between church and state.

[ QUOTE ]
1st Amendment : Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

[/ QUOTE ]

As to "the right to privacy", do you really believe that there is no general proclivity towards that right in the United States Constitution and the laws? For example, ever heard of Habeas Corpus? (What do you think it is, some kinda steak?)

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[Broken Glass Can]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, ever heard of Habeas Corpus? (What do you think it is, some kinda steak?)


[/ QUOTE ]

Why bring this idea of cannibalism into this discussion?

[HDPM]

I am surprised people are neglecting his performance on clemency pettions when President Bush was a governor. The Atlantic had a good article on this I have been trying to find again. I think he will carry on the proud AG tradition of Clark, Meese, Reno and Ashcroft. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]