Hand advice

[TheBob]

Hey guys, I'm new to Omaha and just played a hand that I'd like your advice on. We're 6 handed in a low limit omaha cash game, I'm dealt king jack 10 8 four different suits and I see the flop for real cheap. The flop comes king jack 7 rainbow. First guy checks, second guy makes a small bet, I triple it, fourth guy calls and then it's back to the first guy who makes a big raise. The initial bettor quickly folds and it's back to me with another person behind me. At this point I'm pretty sure that the guy in first position has the same two pair as me with the outside chance that he has trip 7's, the guy behind me probably had nothing but a weak draw as he likes to chase. I decided to move all in. The guy behind me folds and the guy who put in the big raise calls and turns over king jack queen 5 giving him the same hand but with a runner runner flush draw and 3 outs for his queens. He ends up hitting the runner runner flush and I lose my money. Did I do anything wrong here or is this an automatic call? Thanks a lot for your advice.

[commodore64]

you need to think this one through yourself to help yourself. i dont want to sound condescending, so i mean no harm in criticizing you, but you butchered this hand from the start IMO.
Start with hand selection. I realize you got in cheap and you are 6 handed, but that hand is garbage. you have nothing suited no connectors just 4 random cards which you justified playing because they are above 8 i guess. Muck this hand preflop. what do you want to hit with this hand?
Lets move to the flop. Let me say this loud and clear for all to hear. 2 pair on the flop in pot limit omaha on the flop with no redraws is the quickest way to go broke. omaha is a drawing game. so lets look at what you wrote that you are fairly sure that the big raiser has the same hand as you. so you are putting all your money in where all you can do is split the pot. you can't make a better 2 pair. you can't make a flush or a straight. any wrap is close to you. any pair with an A has a redraw on you. your hand is so vulnerable and you cannot improve. he has the ultimate free roll on you if he has the same two pair and any card over a J. plus then he would have a straight draw which you don't.
im rambling. i think preflop call is pretty bad. putting all your chips in if you think the guy has the same hand as you is even worse, because your read could be off, 2 pair with no redraw is bad, and you chose to put all your chips in for what you thought was half the pot at best, your hand cannot improve.

gl

[TheBob]

[ QUOTE ]
you need to think this one through yourself to help yourself. i dont want to sound condescending, so i mean no harm in criticizing you, but you butchered this hand from the start IMO.
Start with hand selection. I realize you got in cheap and you are 6 handed, but that hand is garbage. you have nothing suited no connectors just 4 random cards which you justified playing because they are above 8 i guess. Muck this hand preflop. what do you want to hit with this hand?
Lets move to the flop. Let me say this loud and clear for all to hear. 2 pair on the flop in pot limit omaha on the flop with no redraws is the quickest way to go broke. omaha is a drawing game. so lets look at what you wrote that you are fairly sure that the big raiser has the same hand as you. so you are putting all your money in where all you can do is split the pot. you can't make a better 2 pair. you can't make a flush or a straight. any wrap is close to you. any pair with an A has a redraw on you. your hand is so vulnerable and you cannot improve. he has the ultimate free roll on you if he has the same two pair and any card over a J. plus then he would have a straight draw which you don't.
im rambling. i think preflop call is pretty bad. putting all your chips in if you think the guy has the same hand as you is even worse, because your read could be off, 2 pair with no redraw is bad, and you chose to put all your chips in for what you thought was half the pot at best, your hand cannot improve.

gl

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the response. I don't really think that it's condescending seen as I know very little about omaha and am trying to learn. I agree with what you said about the pre-flop play but once I got there should I have folded and if so when?

[Acesover8s]

I don't agree with the other poster that 'two pair in omaha is the quickest way to go broke'. If you believe you have the best hand and your opponent is drawing you should play your hand thusly. Waiting for a safe turn card is sometimes a good idea.

With the action on this hand I would fold, however. Notice also that you put your opponent on the same hand as you (and the other one with a draw), think that through and realize how bad of a situation that puts you in. The most profitable situation in all poker forms are freerolls, it comes up frequently in Omaha (although much more in split pot games).

[USS Gut Shot]

Since this is limit you need to look at the turn. Since it was a blank and your opponent could have a wrap draw you need to call.

Now calling the river is automatic.

I think it okay to look at the flop with your hand for a single bet.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Since this is limit you need to look at the turn. Since it was a blank and your opponent could have a wrap draw you need to call.

Now calling the river is automatic.

I think it okay to look at the flop with your hand for a single bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm fairly certain the original poster did not state that it was a limit game. He said it was a "low limit game" but then describes his open making a small bet and him "Tripling it".

[ QUOTE ]
I think it okay to look at the flop with your hand for a single bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree and will say that in a limit game (since your statement presupposed it was a limit game) you are not going to be paid off as much when you hit, than nut-peddling becomes closer to perfect strategy, and KJT8 will rarely hit hard. I would in fact not play 3456 in a limit omaha high game, where I would call a full raise with it in PLO.