How much should I push a small flush?

[Withen]

I pushed this flush pretty hard, when I had the fourth-lowest possible flush (only 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] made a lower flush). Was I too aggressive? Also, should I have raised my flush draw on the flop for value? At the time I rationalized not raising because my flush, if made, might not be the best flush, but now that I think back on it, if I'm going to cap the turn when I hit my flush, then I should've bet the flop as well.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, CO calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, CO calls, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls.

River: (19.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

[Derek in NYC]

Ram and jam a made toilet flush on the flop, as you dont want another of your suit to fall, and fill somebody else's one-card nut flush.

If you hit on 4th street, I will raise with a 2-card toilet flush, but if reraised I will generally check-call. Flush over flush happens, and particularly when the flop was two-tone, your 4th street raise is shouting out: "I have a flush". His re-raise is saying, "I know you have a flush, but mine is bigger."

This doesn't apply if I hit the flush somehow runner runner on fifth street, in which case people often wont give you credit for the flush. I think its pretty safe to cap it on 5th street with a runner runner flush.

The harder question is what if you make your flush, but you it's two bets to you just to call. In this case, you want to make sure the board hasn't paired for a plausible boat. If the flop were, for example, JT7 and 4th street was a J (also completing your flush), you need to at least think about whether you're dead to a boat. Obviously the possibility of being up against a bigger flush is also there.

Bottom line: when it's two bets cold on 4th street, whether or how hard to play a toilet flush is a difficult question indeed.

[Harv72b]

...MP1 shows KJ, YHIG.

I think you played it perfectly. The times you lose to a bigger flush are more than compensated for with the extra bets you gain by pushing. FWIW, the biggest pot I ever won came after catching a river flush with 54s, out of the BB.

[Withen]

[ QUOTE ]
...MP1 shows KJ, YHIG.

I think you played it perfectly. The times you lose to a bigger flush are more than compensated for with the extra bets you gain by pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had MP1 on KJ too, or an OESD.. I figured that the chances of a flush draw and a straight/straight draw on the flop were pretty close, so I'm only behind half the time. With the other callers, raising and capping seemed profitable.

[Derek in NYC]

[quoteThe times you lose to a bigger flush are more than compensated for with the extra bets you gain by pushing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This statement is only true at some tables. Many more people these days play any two suited, so hands like jack-rag or ten-rag are quite common. Ram and jam indefinitely at your own peril. This is one reason I have modified Miller's "any two suited from the SB" advice.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

you played this hand fine. with that many players trapped for multiple bets on the turn, it will make up for it the times that you do actually run into flush over flush.

also with 4 bet caps online, it usually isn't that terrible to spew chips either in these spots as you know you're closing the action.

[mistrpug]

How would you have reacted to a river raise?

[btspider]

why does no one want to call-3bet the flop? is it to set up the turn check-raise? is it too obvious that you have a flush draw and you kill your future action?

i'd call a river raise.

[mistrpug]

[ QUOTE ]
why does no one want to call-3bet the flop? is it to set up the turn check-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my thinking fo calling the flop raise.


[ QUOTE ]
i'd call a river raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too.