Nut flush draw + pair + bkdoor straight...slow down?

DrPublo · #1 12-21-2004, 10:39 PM

First hand at the table, I post in the CO. I'm just switching back from Empire to Party and I haven't copied the notes file over yet, so no reads and no notes. Assume standard opponents.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero (poster) calls, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Standard? I'm pretty sure the pot is going to be multiway and I have position (although not with respect to the raiser).

Flop: (11.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Good raise?

Turn: (9.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Take my free card with extra outs or bet for value? Felt like a bet but I could be persuaded. I say felt like a bet because I don't particularly mind a c/r here, right?

River: (15.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 3-bets, Hero....

Good raise here? And what to do now?

Thanks for any and all comments.

The Doc

edtost · #2 12-21-2004, 11:20 PM

call, and get gametime+. so much better than autoexport notes.

NoDice · #3 12-21-2004, 11:25 PM

I think your play was fine on all streets. I call the river. MP2 took it to three bets here, so it's likely he has JT, but he could very well have a set in this situation and doesn't put you on holding a six due to your flop aggression. This is my first post in the forum, so forgive me while I familiarize myself.

DrPublo · #4 12-21-2004, 11:33 PM

Do you bet the turn or let it get checked through?

The Doc

NoDice · #5 12-21-2004, 11:44 PM

Bet the turn. There's a small chance you pick up the pot right there. Combined with the fact that you have 9 outs to the nut flush and an open-ended straight draw which is probably worth about 5-6 outs, I think you're in good position to win this pot. I like this play, betting wins more pots than checking and calling.

Derek in NYC · #6 12-21-2004, 11:58 PM

1. Fold preflop
2. Flop is fine
3. 4th street is fine.
4. Reraise the river, call a cap.

The 4th street conclusion requires some explanation. You have 8 outs to the nuts (any [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] except the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]), 1 out to the likely nuts (9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]), 4 outs to the non-nut but probably good str8, and 3 outs to two pair (any 6) which may or may not be good. An ace either doesnt help you, or you dont need it because you're ahead, so I will count the ace as zero.

This is a total of 14-16 outs with 1 card to come, meaning you're about 2:1 against. Now ordinarily, if you can get 2 people or more to come along on the ride, you should raise for value.

However, because of position and the order of the betting, a raise here is more likely to thin the field and isolate you against the raiser. So just call and hope that MP1 calls behind. Now if MP1 had been the bettor, and MP2 had called, I would suggest raising unless you think MP1 would reraise.

stabn · #7 12-22-2004, 12:04 AM

How could he fold preflop if he was a CO poster? He's getting 10-1 on his preflop call, and if the three limpers call behind him he gets 13-1.

DrPublo · #8 12-22-2004, 12:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1. Fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

What?

3 limpers + blinds + the raiser in front of me. I've posted, so assuming the BB calls, and all limpers call, I'm getting 12:1 on my call. I don't particularly fear a reraise here, and even if one of the limpers ducks out I'm still way priced in. I'm also not playing this hand for one pair, obviously.

Playing flush draws out of position sucks, but acting last is nice, especially if I run a free card play on the flop. Do you really think this is a fold preflop? Please explain.

The Doc

stabn · #9 12-22-2004, 12:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Playing flush draws out of position sucks, but acting last is nice, especially if I run a free card play on the flop. Do you really think this is a fold preflop? Please explain.

[/ QUOTE ]

He must have missed the fact that you posted in the CO.

DrPublo · #10 12-22-2004, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
An ace either doesnt help you, or you dont need it because you're ahead, so I will count the ace as zero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ace helps if he has two pair like 9s up or 8s up, which is not too unlikely (playing 89, 78, etc). So you're right I do have plenty of outs, more than even you counted, so I'm pretty sure it's a good turn bet. Does anybody disagree?

River helps my hand if I was behind a set or two pair but commits me to more bets if he's got a better straight. Good raise?

The Doc