Where do I draw the line?

[BobboFitos]

Ok, I'm writing this because an overaggressive online player definately has me frustrated. The scenario:

Full game, you limp from EP or MP with a PP. OAP (Overaggressive player) raises, the blinds fold, and you call, taking the flop head up. The flop brings all low cards, like 3 3 5, or 2 4 5, etc. So all wheel cards.

You have an overpair, you check to him, and he overbets the pot. My real qualm is when do you think your OP is good?

I'm including JJ down to 66, (three wheel cards) and I'd really like to know the rationale behind this, only because I folded two mid pairs (8-8 and 9-9) and he showed twice, and both times I had him in rough shape.

This player isn't bad, just LAGish, so he raises more hands from LP, but you can't define his hand range any further than the info provided/fact he raises with most PPs.

And when/if you vote, please explain the logic between the difference in calling with Jacks vs Tens, or Sevens vs Tens, etc. Thanks!

[amoeba]

Interesting post.

Why not bet out with overpair?

if he has overpair as well, is it autoraise for him?

[Pokerho]

If he's overly aggressive, the only thing you should really be worried about is him raising with a hand like A3 or something that flopped him an OESD. If you've flopped 2 pair against an aggressive player, I would say you're probably ahead (especially if all of the cards are low like you said). Betting or check raising would be my play after the flop.

[BobboFitos]

I voted for tens and up, and honestly, I have no idea why!!!

I "guess" my thinking is if you have a lowly pair and are right he only has overcards, it's still very likely he has overs, which gives him ~25% of winning, so your guess as to whether he has a big pair or not has to be far more accurate, because with TT or up he could have one (or no!) overs, making any correct guess virtually gauruntee you the pot.

But I'm really open to suggestions!

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting post.

Why not bet out with overpair?

if he has overpair as well, is it autoraise for him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I should've bet out in both cases.

However, I still think this player, being an OAP, is fully capable/believes whatever pair he has is good, and will shove it in, making me expend more $ into essentially the same decision. (When to trust a mid OP)

It's entirely possible he'd shove in with AK, if he thinks I'm leading in with weaker undercards.

[amoeba]

wow, thats scary lag. he shoves it in on the flop with AK?

damn.....

well I would vote for 10 and up. any other pocket pair out of position is set or fold on the flop.

[fathertime]

I've encountered the same problem and folded kicking myself.

Don't know if this is the answer, but I've been thinking about taking this line:

1. Play tight. Reraise him preflop in position--which sets you up to take down the pot on the flop, whatever comes? Play the flop aggressively.

2. If out of position, limp raise and lead with a pot-sized bet?

What pocket pair you decide to do this with doesn't really matter--you're playing tight and he'll put your reraise on AA, KK, QQ or AK. Once you pot the flop, he should put you on an overpair. And so you should be okay unless he happens to have one of these hands or happens to have hit a monster.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, thats scary lag. he shoves it in on the flop with AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he would - but really it's far more likely he has a pair, too, just him having random cards isn't unfathomable.

[jslag]

How much does he overbet the pot by on the flop? If you still have a decent stack behind you, then you should definitely raise his overbet on the flop.

If this happens a few times, then I'm more prone to back my stack with 88 and up against this type of player. Just let him auto-bet the flop, then push. The problem with this is that you have to make a stand at the right time. He already bluffed you out a couple times, so if he does the same thing next time, he could easily be holding AA-QQ.

You could also pull a stop and go if you suspect he's bluffing. Call his overbet on the flop, then lead the turn (push or make a substantial bet) when it's a non-scary card for your hand.

Another thing you might want to try and do is change seats so you have position on him.

In the end, you have to make a stand. Eventually you will catch him.

[amoeba]

well, I don't think you can check fold with overpairs like that. Then it means everytime he has AK, AQ, AJ, KQ in late position, he automatically wins unless if you hit set.

I still think you should lead out on the flop with overpairs.If he goes all in, call if its TT +. The fact that you think he would do this with just overcards makes the call easier.

another question, how does he respond to a preflop raise with say 22 - 88 ?

lets say you have TT in early position. you bet 4xBB. he calls. flop comes 234 rainbow. you bet out 2/3 pot to pot. how does he respond?