QJo - PFR and flop free card play

milesdyson · #1 12-16-2004, 02:48 AM

Table is loose passive. Only had a more specific read on UTG - he would slow down to any aggression postflop, even with TPTK and such. However, a bet doesn't mean a made hand. So he's super passive on the big streets, but will throw a bet out here and there on flops.

Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises ...

Entity · #2 12-16-2004, 02:53 AM

I don't like your preflop raise at all.

Flop raise would be nicer with some stronger draws since the board is semi-coordinated. I'd probably call here and re-evaluate on the turn. Pot is big but you don't have much of a hand to protect.

Rob

milesdyson · #3 12-16-2004, 02:58 AM

Well the point of the raise on the flop isn't to protect my hand, as I am second-to-last to act.

Can you really not find any love in your heart for the raise preflop, on the button, against 5 weak, weak limpers?

Joe Tall · #4 12-16-2004, 02:59 AM

Can you really not find any love in your heart for the raise preflop, on the button, against 5 weak, weak limpers

Nope, wait until it's suited.

Peace,
Joe Tall

Entity · #5 12-16-2004, 03:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Can you really not find any love in your heart for the raise preflop, on the button, against 5 weak, weak limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. Suited and I'm raising in a shot. QJo just doesn't have enough overall power to pull it off here.

Your flop raise seems to be pretty obviously a free card raise, and against an LP-P it's gonna work most of the time. But there are other players involved, and some (actually a good portion) of the time they'll stop and go anyway, and you'll have to fold the turn.

Rob

milesdyson · #6 12-16-2004, 03:04 AM

I see where you're both coming from on the PFR. This is an obvious raise with QJs... but being the button with this many callers makes me think this may be at least 0 EV, if not a little +EV.

Plus, raising is sick.

Entity · #7 12-16-2004, 03:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I see where you're both coming from on the PFR. This is an obvious raise with QJs... but being the button with this many callers makes me think this may be at least 0 EV, if not a little +EV.

Plus, raising is sick.

[/ QUOTE ]
I really don't think it's +EV by much, if at all. I'd rather be raising 89s here than QJo.

Rob

milesdyson · #8 12-16-2004, 03:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can you really not find any love in your heart for the raise preflop, on the button, against 5 weak, weak limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. Suited and I'm raising in a shot. QJo just doesn't have enough overall power to pull it off here.

Your flop raise seems to be pretty obviously a free card raise, and against an LP-P it's gonna work most of the time. But there are other players involved, and some (actually a good portion) of the time they'll stop and go anyway, and you'll have to fold the turn.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, to be honest, the way I played this hand is very atypical. It was the first PFR that wasn't a blind steal attempt, and it was this that built the pot and led me to think raising the flop for a free card was best.