Playing 10-10 with no overcards on flop versus potential higher PP

[lehighguy]

Let us say you are play 3/6 party. You have 10-10 and you raise. SOmeone behind you reraises.

Now the flop is rainbow rag,rag, jack. You bet and get raised by the trip raiser. What do you do?

My feeling is he either AK or AQ and missed, hit jacks o AJ (less likely), or more liekly in my mind has a higher PPL JJ-AA based on the trip raise. I feel like I should fold here. Even if I am ahead (less then 50% I feel, then he can still spike top pair on turn/river, and I am out of position as well).

Let say that instead of a jack you get a 9 on the flop. Does your action change?

Now lets say someone raises and you are on the button and you reraise, they cap. The flop is rag, rag, rag, rainbow. They bet, you raise, they three bet. What do you do?

Now what I call the random factor. If I have data on a rock then I know he's probably got a monster. But lets say its a fishy who sees 30% of flops?, 50% of flops? Do you think maybe hes just as crazy cause you see these people 3-bet thier ace 5 suited, or do you think even fishes get aces somtime. What do you do?

[Mike Gallo]

I do not play Party Poker so take this at face value.

I would go into check call mode for the turn and river if no scary cards come and you do not improve.

[Sir Limps Alot]

Folding is probably the right play here. It is heads up. You probably should have checked the flop to the raiser and then check raised him. If he three bets you fold if he calls check and call the turn and river. You get more info by checking the flop and raising rather than betting the flop and calling.

[mtdoak]

Its simple, you are less than 50% certain you have the best hand. Play back at him on the flop (its cheap), and if he caps, you can be almost 90% certain you are beat (unless he is a total LAG)

[sthief09]

check-call the flop
check-call the turn
bet the river, or check-call if he's aggressive


it's a great line for situations like this

[Louie Landale]

If you are in ANY doubt about what to do when raised, then betting out at that flop is rediculous: you are already probably beat and got a bad flop, why would you wontonly invest a bunch of more money?

And if you have no doubt about calling the raise then you do even BETTER if you check-and-call him down; why discourage bets you intend to call?

Betting out like this is only desirable if it WILL cause him to play predictably; in this case call with overcards and raise with the overpair. And I do mean "cause", since if he's going to check overcards and bet an overpair, you do better by checking, figuring to fold if he bets or bet the turn if he checks. And, checking-and-calling then checking-and-folding is usually better than betting and folding, since you get to see a turn card the first way (although it DOES let the opponent see the river card with his overcards).

In the other situations, you have no reason to start capping with a probable loser if you figure to keep calling anyway.

Yes, fish get just as many AA as you do. But if they are LAGs and will 3-bet with A5s or better, TT flopped over-pair is golden. That means find a way to comfortably show this hand down; and that usually means let this sort of player get in the last bet. No shame in that. If you can bet or raise once and STILL call down comfortably, then do that.

Hyper aggression is best when it controls the opponent and gives you valuable information you cannot get another way; usually it means raise-and-fold so you get to get off your dead hand for a paltry 2sb. The situations you described obviously neither controlled the opponent nor gave you valuable information as evidenced by the fact that you kept asking "now what".

Think about the "now what" before you assert yourself.

- Louie

[Richard Berg]

I think this situation calls for check-check-bet, especially if you can river a nice scary card. Betting the flop seems dumb unless you know your opponent well enough to fold cheaply.

[Redd]

The check-call, check-call, bet line is advised very frequently on the SS and the Micro forums, and I've never understood what situations to use it in and why. Is the river bet a bluff, or does this somehow maximize wins when you're ahead and minimize losses when you're behind?

[mtdoak]

The flop is the cheapest street. I look at it this way when I am out of position: Would I rather lose 3 small bets: (bet into him, then three bet if he raises, fold if he caps) or 1 small bet and two big bets by check-calling? If he has a set of jacks or a high pocket pair, you are drawing to two outs, you can get out early.

[Mike Gallo]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are in ANY doubt about what to do when raised, then betting out at that flop is rediculous: you are already probably beat and got a bad flop, why would you wontonly invest a bunch of more money?

And if you have no doubt about calling the raise then you do even BETTER if you check-and-call him down; why discourage bets you intend to call?

Betting out like this is only desirable if it WILL cause him to play predictably; in this case call with overcards and raise with the overpair. And I do mean "cause", since if he's going to check overcards and bet an overpair, you do better by checking, figuring to fold if he bets or bet the turn if he checks. And, checking-and-calling then checking-and-folding is usually better than betting and folding, since you get to see a turn card the first way (although it DOES let the opponent see the river card with his overcards).

In the other situations, you have no reason to start capping with a probable loser if you figure to keep calling anyway.

Yes, fish get just as many AA as you do. But if they are LAGs and will 3-bet with A5s or better, TT flopped over-pair is golden. That means find a way to comfortably show this hand down; and that usually means let this sort of player get in the last bet. No shame in that. If you can bet or raise once and STILL call down comfortably, then do that.

Hyper aggression is best when it controls the opponent and gives you valuable information you cannot get another way; usually it means raise-and-fold so you get to get off your dead hand for a paltry 2sb. The situations you described obviously neither controlled the opponent nor gave you valuable information as evidenced by the fact that you kept asking "now what".

Think about the "now what" before you assert yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome explanation of what Sjthief09 and I said.

We gave the play you gave the detailed explanation. Bravo!!