First hand post AQ in the big blind.

Brunger · #1 12-10-2004, 02:49 AM

This hand takes place in a loose-passive 4-8 live game. The raiser, UTG +2, in this hand tries to play well and is tight but on tilt complaining constantly on the bad beats his is taking. MP2 is loose and terrible. Button is a too loose but the most aggressive player at the table.

Hero is in the big blind with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls,3 folds, button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8.5sbs)

Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, MP2 calls, button calls

Turn: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (12bb)
Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP2 raises, button calls, Hero calls

River: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (18bb)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, button raises, Hero folds, MP2 calls

On the turn UTG+2 whines about getting them beat again an claims to fold aces, I believe him, I knew I was behind on the turn here with a raise from MP2. I really don't like how I played this hand at all and curious to see how others would have played it.

Chairman Wood · #2 12-10-2004, 03:06 AM

Preflop: Calling the raise is okay being that you are in the BB but if he were making the raise and you were in another position I'd probably fold. One thing to note is that with what you're aiming for with this hand your position relative to the bettor sucks ass. AQ suited on the other hand....
Flop: I don't think I c/r here. Preflop raiser is to your left. Sadly if you bet in to him and he raises like you want him to do he probably is only do that with a better hand. You're stuck here but I think I bet out. It worked out fine when the button raised not you can think about getting people out. When he caps. Bells should ring that you're probably against QQ KK or AA.
Turn: check call. I believe this is a situation where you "check with outs, bet and fold to a raise with no outs."
River: Check Fold is good.

Brunger · #3 12-10-2004, 03:23 AM

After the hand I felt that folding pre-flop was probably best. It just seemed like to much hand to fold for one more bet in the big blind. I was almost sure when it was capped that I was beat on the flop. The reason I bet the turn was because I knew the UTG+2 would not raise without a flush which I didn't think that he had. He also was trying to play well and made the occasional bad laydown,like in this case. When he hemmed and hawwed and finally folded I could barely wipe the smile off my face until MP2 raised. This meant flush and flush only. Checking might be better here but I would hate to check and see it checked through or have to call two-cold. As for leading the flop your right he probably only raises when I am beat so I probably messed up there too.

James282 · #4 12-10-2004, 03:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
After the hand I felt that folding pre-flop was probably best. It just seemed like to much hand to fold for one more bet in the big blind. I was almost sure when it was capped that I was beat on the flop. The reason I bet the turn was because I knew the UTG+2 would not raise without a flush which I didn't think that he had. He also was trying to play well and made the occasional bad laydown,like in this case. When he hemmed and hawwed and finally folded I could barely wipe the smile off my face until MP2 raised. This meant flush and flush only. Checking might be better here but I would hate to check and see it checked through or have to call two-cold. As for leading the flop your right he probably only raises when I am beat so I probably messed up there too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, welcome to the forum. You should never fold this hand preflop in the BB for 1 bet. He wouldn't raise Jacks? Tens? Kings? Queens? You aren't in that bad a shape against any of these hands. You played the rest of the hand relatively well. FWIW, AQo is even a good hand to three-bet with against many opponents, in fact, it's a good hand to three-bet with against all but the tightest opponents, especially if they raise in a middle to late position.
-James

Chairman Wood · #5 12-10-2004, 03:47 AM

Preflop: It's still fine, it's not two cold, only one. Don't be results orientated just because you knew the guy had AA. Stick to your guns. Hey, Ed tells you to do it. (I'm not sure but he may even suggest 3-betting in loose games, probably not from this position though)
Flop: Due to your relative position, I still think betting out on the flop is best, when he raises so be it. I think you're misunderstanding me when I said he would only "raise with a better hand." I was saying that about my suggested line.You're getting information here by betting out. If he only calls, you may have the best hand. You're doing nothing by planning to check raise UTG+2 here except give money to flush draws. If he was on the button then it would be a very different story cause you cold protect your hand. You got lucky that button raised and you could then face the rest of the field with two bets. That was quasi-protecting your hand there.
On the turn: You would be delighted to have this checked through. You are drawing. You're still calling two bets to see the next card (correctly) it doesn't really matter if they are cold or not.

Chairman Wood · #6 12-10-2004, 03:50 AM

I meant if you are calling two bets cold on the turn.

Brunger · #7 12-10-2004, 03:53 AM

Thank you for the welcome. I don't remeber ever having folded it for one bet in the big blind but could it be right if you know he will only raise TT-AA and AQ, AK. By the way while there are many people who I'd three-bet with AQ he is not one of them. I hate AQo [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

James282 · #8 12-10-2004, 04:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you for the welcome. I don't remeber ever having folded it for one bet in the big blind but could it be right if you know he will only raise TT-AA and AQ, AK. By the way while there are many people who I'd three-bet with AQ he is not one of them. I hate AQo [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you hate it? It's one of the best hands! But listen, let's say he raises and it's folded to you in the BB. He agrees that that is the last bet put in(so you don't have to worry about your postflop skills in this example.) He promises that he only has one of the hands you mentioned - here is your equity against those hands:

About 43% against TT and JJ.
28% against KK.
30% against QQ.
7% against AA.
Tie with AQ.
26% against AK.

You are getting 3.5:1 on your call in the heads up scenario, which means you need to win a little less than 25% of the time postflop to make a profit. And you already have one of the aces and one of the queens so AA, QQ, and AQ are unlikely. You are in fine shape against the others. And you said he's on tilt, and even good players and tight players raise more than the hands you laid out. Even tight players will have AJ there. And KQ. Hands you have crushed. So the point is there should be pretty much no one you fold AQo in the BB to, unless this person is much better than you in postflop play and you will spray a ton of chips with a worse hand, I suppose.
-James

Brunger · #9 12-10-2004, 04:03 AM

If the turn was checked through I would have felt that I had the best hand and the best draw and got no bets in. I do understand leading out on the flop and felt in hindsight that it was probably the best move. I actually bet the turn as a kinda of a semi-bluff with still some shred of hope that I had the best hand. Thanks for the responses [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Brunger · #10 12-10-2004, 04:09 AM

When I say that I hate AQ it is more of a joke than a serious statement. You are right of course, maybe I was a little domination happy thinking that a fold could ever be correct he would have to flip up his cards and show me KK, AA, or AK. What do you think about the check 3-bet it felt strange. I think that leading out is probably better. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]