KK hand in UTG+1; 1/2

aLOWdAkING · #1 12-09-2004, 04:36 AM

Sorry, I don't know much 2+2 lingo. UTG is pretty tight however, SB is a tricky player who likes to bluff and checkraise a lot, BB is a fish, plays a lot of hands and doesn't really know how to read the board well in terms of what other players might have (chases a lot too). MP3 no goodread really yet, but he's a solid player.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls $1.50 (All-In), MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Value bet the turn? Was afraid somebody already had me beat.

River: (8.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

How was my play?

CinnamonWind · #2 12-09-2004, 04:38 AM

I think you're beaten by a weak ace in a weak player's hand who is frightened of his kicker. Betting the river is fine, but if you got raised you'd have to dump.

bisonbison · #3 12-09-2004, 04:44 AM

I'd just bet the turn. You can safely fold to a raise on this drawfree board.

By the way, 1/2 hands go in micro.

Michael Davis · #4 12-09-2004, 04:51 AM

Based on his play of this hand, there is no way MP3 is a solid player.

-Michael

bdk3clash · #5 12-09-2004, 04:53 AM

You should bet this turn--I think you want to put one bet in on the turn + river, and I'd rather do it on the turn rather than check there and call a river bet because:

-There's a chance you're ahead and your opponents have draws (2-outers, 5-outers) that would be incorrect to call a bet here.
-You can fold if checkraised or if MP3 raises
-Betting here sets you up to check behind everyone on the river if MP3 folds
-Generally, I don't want to only be putting my 1 BB in when one of my opponents wakes up and bets the river after I've just given the field a free card on the turn.

In my thinking, you want to angle for a one bet showdown here, and I think the turn is the best place to spend your one bet.

I would never check this turn so it's hard for me to think about betting the river or not, but I would likely bet and fold to a raise.

In the future, $1/2 hands go in micro, and I would stop the action at your river decision, since you didn't know that MP3 and BB would be calling if you bet the river. No biggie.

CinnamonWind · #6 12-09-2004, 04:55 AM

FWIW, this is one of the most common scenarios in LLHE. You have a big pair and raise, get called by a weak ace, and the weak ace doesn't have the balls to bet or the balls to fold (or the ovaries, heh). Too scared to bet and too scared they might be folding a winner. It's the very definition of loose passive play.

Shillx · #7 12-09-2004, 05:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Based on his play of this hand, there is no way MP3 is a solid player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly though. Not good enough to bet on the turn, yet good enough to go for overcalls on the river...

bdk3clash · #8 12-09-2004, 05:12 AM

For situations like this I think you want to figure out how many bets you want to go in on the turn + river and then figure out how to spend those bets.

The whole "check behind on the turn and call the river to snap off a bluff" just isn't the best way to spend 1 bet, and you miss out on all the turn bets you collect if you happen to have been ahead, and you are putting in zero bets a lot of the time and one bet ONLY when your one of your opponen bets, and this board isn't particularly draw-heavy so I'm not seeing all the busted draws that are waking up and betting this river...

So, uh, yeah, bet the turn. It isn't comfortable when you're starting out, but eventually I think you realize that there are worse things than "wasting" a bet when someone out there "obviously" has an Ace.

CinnamonWind · #9 12-09-2004, 06:08 AM

I agree you should have bet the turn here. You might even get a weaker ace to fold. You really don't have that chance on the river. Plus you may get someone with middle pair to fold and not draw at you on the river. Spending the one bet you're wanting to invest in this pot on the turn is the best place to put your money in. If it's a value bet on the turn, it probably would have been a value bet on the river (unless they caught), but when you make it on the turn more good things can happen (like someone not catching because they folded a weak draw or lower pair).