Raising in late position with.....

[winky51]

From my experience and from what I read raising in late position is beneificial with the right hands.

22-66: with 5 callers for the set odds

QJs, KJs, ATs, AJs, AQs, AKs: Big card, suited, makes nut straights, plays well in multiway pots.

AA, KK: the fatties

QQ: depends but usually I assume

Small Ax suited: I have read to raise with these hands but by my figures you really need 5-6 callers to do this kind of raising. You have about a 15.25% chance to hit a good flop, 2 pair, trips, FH, quads, flush draw or flush. Is my assumption accurate 5-6 callers to raise?

Suited connectors 54s-JTs: which should you raise if any? You have about a 21 1/2% chance to flop something good, 2 pair, trips, FH, quads, flush draw or flush, str8 draw or str8. Now the lower 2 pairs are very vulnerable so I would figure you need greater odds (54s-78s).

UNsuited big cards: AJ, AT, A9, A8-A6 KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT: I usually find these only good for heads up in position or blind stealing. Hands are placed in order of value.

Steal from...
Late MP: A9+, KQ, KJ, 77+
Cutoff: A9+, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, 66+
Button: A6+, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, JT, 44+
SB: T9s or JT, A2+ and above 33+

Thoughts?

[Rubeskies]

Are you really saying you'll raise with 22 after 5 limpers but not with 77-JJ and sometimes not QQ?

[winky51]

It assumes all the other hands.

What is a matter with this forum. My questions rarely get answered, I get snide remarks. How I post gets snide remarks, yet people answer the simplest of hand questions from newbies by the droves to prove their superior poker skils.. Its really getting annoying.

I think this question is good and no one answered but when some one posts a hand about reraising with a pair of 99s with the board has 3 str8 and 4 flush on it, everyone answers nicely.

[IndieMatty]

I'll field this question, as a semi-anonymous poster here, who's knowledge of the game is limited theres a few reasons for your questions. Please take what I say as friendly advice rather then criticism, as I am far from an intimidating poster on these boards (really there are none).




The real question your asking about raising hands, I honestly don't think I am very qualified to answer. I am a huge pre-flop lag with a VPIP ranging in the 26 area. (Basically I suck, but somehow I am a "winning" player)

I think it is in fact a decent question. Which would be met with more enthusiasm if it were not for your repeated postings from a few days ago. You asked:

[ QUOTE ]
What is a matter with this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the main issues with this forum is a deluge of posts. A few days back you posted at least 8 hands in one sitting. This was not taken kindly, by well... anyone. Common sense dictates that there is a limited amount of time some of the more knowledgeable posters have to answer questions correctly. And seeing someone trying to hog (maybe not intentionally) the entire front page of perhaps the most popular forum section on the board is a turn off. Another turn off would be someone who posts there questions on at least a 10-1 ratio that they offer insight to others postings (especially those "newbies"). Since you are beyond that status, try answering these simple questions. The real reason people jump to answer the questions posed from some posters and not others is because posters recognize the contributions of others, therefore a post from StellarWind, Bob T, MoreWine, Bison, CDC, StThief, BDK, Tosh, Evan, SFer, etc are met so favorably because for the most part, the people here are a nice lot who recognize the contributions of others and want to help them.

To answer another question, you may be met with Snide remarks (and Rubeskies was no where near - snide) because, snideness is born from turn-offs.



Oh and a quickie answer is "it depends". Table conditions, the players in the blinds, the player to your left, etc. There really is no formumatic pre-flop raising strategy (hence the thousands of posts regarding pre-flop play) The one thing that we all know here in Small Stakes section (even the "newbies" you refer to) is to raise TT+ from any position. This is not debateable.

Again, I am not trying to be offensive. Take these comments to heart; and hopefully someone from the above list can shed more light on your question.



P.S. I never typed the word snide so many times. I feel born anew.

[Moozh]

I think one of the reasons you're not getting answers is because the choice is closer than you may think.

Personally, I really don't like Axs hands and low suited connectors as much as others. On the other hand, I absolutely love late position. After a number of limpers, I'll usually call with low pairs (as high as 99 with 3 other limpers) and suited connectors up to JTs. I'll raise with my high card hands if only to try and get the blinds out. To be honest, I'm not sure this is right. TT and up I raise regardless.

Now if it's folded to me, I'll raise with any pair and JTs and up.

Is this the 'right' way to do it? Who knows? Would you lose/gain a lot by raising 89s after 4 limpers? Probably not.

[Hermlord]

I will almost always raise with QQ, I'd love it capped. I'll reraise with JJ or TT but probably just call a reraise ahead of me. I'd only not cap QQ when facing a reraise from a *very* tight player.

Axs really isn't that great a hand, I'll usually play it in LP but won't raise. The flush draw really does not come in very often, and without it the hand is pretty vulnerable (this is the principle of raise when you're ahead in the hand, and Axs is often not ahead pf).

Low pairs I usually call, without hitting the set they're very often worthless. I haven't actually done the numbers on raising and how many callers you'd want to make this correct, or if it ever is, so I'll abstain from that discussion.

Standard disclaimer about how everything is table-dependent, read-dependent, etc.

Not a comprehensive reply, just a few of the ones that caught my eye.

[bdk3clash]

-I'm not raising 22-66 with 5 callers

-KJs, ATs, AJs, AQs, AKs: I'm always raising these. QJs is more situational for me, definitely a "punish weak limpers" hand to raise with in the CO or button but I'm fine calling with it at a more reasonable table.

QQ doesn't depend for me, it's an auto-cap at this point so I'm obviously raising limpers with it in LP.

Small Axs--my cutoff for raising is A8s, after many, many limpers I don't raise with it, but ATs I will pretty much always raise with.

Suited connectors--I've yet to explore jamming with these preflop.

Unsuited big cards: AJo I raise, KQo I raise.

Steal standards are very situational but you look like you're well thought out on this stuff. It depends on the table and how they're reacting to LP and CO and button open-raises, I guess.

Blind defense at the 3/6 games I've been playing lately is absolutely terrible so I steal raise from LP with a, uh, "creative" range of hands if my opponents are just rolling over.

[winky51]

Thanks for the answers.

I understand everyone's concern about raising LP wiith small pairs. But consider this...

You raise after 5+ bad players limped. You only play small pairs with 5+ people in the pot for pot odds for the set. Its the only way those hands win. Now if you win with a set 87% of the time why not raise?

1. They won't put you on the hand if you hit your set.
2. Its the same ratio of money with so many limpers.
3. They might all check on the flop giving you an extra chance to hit that set. This has actually happened to me several times. They either all check the flop because they fear aces or kings or they want to check raise with a draw or 2 pair. Well now you hit a set on the turn and tons of money to you.

Now are you people thinking that if you raise you won't get the action you need if you flop a set and jusitfy the odds of getting a set? I think you do if you add that extra 4th card and the chance all will check to you on the flop. But only raise with 5+ callers with small pairs.

[bennyk]

Winky,
Read these:

Thin Preflop Raises

Implied Odds

bk