A 15/30 Hand that might be helpful - and a hand reading exercise.

James282 · #1 12-07-2004, 06:28 PM

Ok, since there have been a lot of posts like "where can I be more aggressive" regarding preflop and postflop play I thought I'd share a typical yet slightly complex hand I played in the 15/30 today. Basically what I want people to do is, go through and put my opponents on hands as the hand progresses, and see if you think my decisions in this hand were rational, or simply chipspraying. The button in this hand has an agression of .9 and MP1 is decidedly too loose.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, MP1 calls.

River: (18.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets

-James

SomethingClever · #2 12-07-2004, 06:38 PM

I think button has JJ. MP1 has a busted flush draw.

Why did you bet the flop with 7 players in? Is it a value bet at that point with your overs? I play it just like you do except I check/call the flop.

I suck at poker though, so I'm probably wrong.

J.R. · #3 12-07-2004, 06:38 PM

MP1 has a meekly played flush/straight draw, or a middling pair if he is loose. Button appears to have called the flop with overcards (or KJ as he is passive) and turned a K. Button wants to protect his hand on the turn in this biggish pot so the turn raise looks like at least a K as his aggression factor is low. The turn 3-bet is close but you are almost always ahead of a loose MP1 here and the button could have coldcalled KT, K9s or K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], although with button's passivity his turn raise probably isn't much else you beat. Not to sure I like the turn 3-bet v a passive opponent.

I don't care for the flop bet in an aggresisve game with lots of opponents and no pair.

Victor · #4 12-07-2004, 06:41 PM

I havent played much 15-30 but at 3-6 I think that is a very tough 3bet. I dont know what aggression factor is either. So if he is laggy that is fine. If he is passive your 3bet sucks. I would say villain most likely has KQ or KJ.

MP clearly has a flush or straight draw.

Howd I do?

runa · #5 12-07-2004, 06:46 PM

The flop bet seems fine. You want to knock anyone out here if you can, and you have a decent backdoor str8 draw as well.

The turn chkraise from BB seems like a BB special 2-pair of some kind. MP1 might be calling down with who knows what, but might be on a draw of some kind (flush, picked up an OESD). Since BB's raise cleaned out most of the field, and its pretty clear MP1 isn't folding, the 3-bet doesn't seem to make much sense. With 14.5:1 on the turn call and about 5 outs I think a call is better here.

EDIT: also aggression factor makes BB's turn raise worrisome

The river is pretty straightforward as no obvious draws complete and you're most likely ahead of BB's 2-pair at this point.

James282 · #6 12-07-2004, 07:07 PM

BB didn't check-raise the turn, the button raised the turn. Also, an aggression factor of .9 is pretty much average, not weak and not overly aggressive, in my experience.
-James

J.R. · #7 12-07-2004, 07:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, an aggression factor of .9 is pretty much average, not weak and not overly aggressive, in my experience

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you filter out preflop, or is this an aggresison factor based on all streets?

sthief09 · #8 12-07-2004, 07:13 PM

I don't really see a point in the flop bet, but that's not the point of the post. I'm sure you have your reasons.

The button could have a range of hands here. He didn't raise the flop, which means that he's either slowplaying you or he picked something up. If he's tightish, there's a good chance he picked up a K on the turn with KQ or KJ. He would've raised the flop with KJ with the chance to clear out a 7-way field. So he's either got a set, KJ, or KQ. I don't see him raising anything less than that because he's pretty passive.

MP1 is loose so we're assuming you have him.

I guess you decided to 3-bet since MP1 is probably drawing to 5 outs (one pair is a lot more likely than a flush draw) and you're getting 2-1 on your raise. if capped, you're probably drawing to at best 3 outs and can fold. I don't quite agree with it right now, but I'm looking forward to seeing what hands you put them on.

Justin A · #9 12-07-2004, 07:15 PM

I'll take a stab.

MP1 has done nothing but call, probably a draw of some sort, most likely diamonds.

Button is tougher, and given his passivity I feel like it could be anything from KT to a set after his turn raise. I think you can rule out KJ, but KQ is possible, as is Kxd.

I'm also curious about the flop bet and your reasoning there.

Justin A

runa · #10 12-07-2004, 07:35 PM

Whoops. I tend to misread posts don't I?

The aggression factor seems to indicate his turn raise is fairly rational.

Given your play on previous streets the Button probably doesn't put you on Kx, and you might still be ahead with a better kicker, but you might also be behind 2-pair, or a set. Instead of 3-betting and folding to a cap I'd prefer to call the turn, bet the river.