NL AK hand

I'm still trying to figure out NL. Tell me your thought process at each decision point.


online tournament 2nd round, blinds 10/20


two loose limpers (They have each played 50% of the hands so far) to me, 2 off the button. I raise it to 60 with AcKh. I think this is a pretty standard raise. Cut off calls, BB calls and first limper calls, 2nd limper folds. 4 to see the flop, pot is T255.


*** FLOP *** : [ 8d Th As ]


Checked to me. How much do you bet? I have T835 left, CO has T1085, BB has T775 and 1st limper has T625.


I bet 200. I thought that might discourage chasing at least. Cut-off calls, BB folds, and limper calls(!?). I'm getting very nervous here now. 3 players and T855 in the pot.


*** TURN *** : [ 8d Th As ] [ 2c ]


Now what?? Checked to me again. Would someone slow-play a set in this position? or two pair? Wouldn't they have raised the flop? I don't want to give a free card, but I'm not sure I'm ahead.

I bet T100. Both call again.


*** RIVER *** : [ 8d Th As 2c ] [ Kc ]


I think I feared 2 pairs more than anything because I pushed all-in when the K fell. Both of them folded and I won a T1,700 pot.


I think the all-in was a mistake. The K might have made a straight, and that's probably the only hand that would call my bet.


Comments on all streets appreciated.

David,


Here goes :


Pre-flop I think you should normally charge a bit more with two limpers. Your raise is really defined in terms of the odds it gives your opponents to call. With no limpers, you can make it 60, and your opponents are getting 90-60 (or 50 or 40 in the blinds) to call. With two limpers, now there is 70 in the pot before it gets to you. Put 60 in now and the BB and the limpers are all getting 130-40 on their call - it's too cheap. 3xBB when no-one is in yet should be upped to 5xBB with two limpers, do you see ? In that ballpark anyway.


Flop 200 is OK. Could bet a little more if you want.


Turn this is where I don't like your play, especially considering what you do on the river. You must have a specific reason for making a bet as small as this. "I don't know what to do" is not good enough ! Anyone with any kind of hand can choose to call or raise you at their leisure, note, even anyone who has already checked - you're opening it back up for a check-raise. If anyone was drawing on the flop it can only have been to a straight, and the 2d has missed it. With 2 callers I would probably go all in at this point unless I had some special knowledge about my opponents. Look at all the cards you don't want to see on the river with further betting, below :


River - I really hope you weren't going to go all in if a 6 fell, or a 7, or a J, or a Q, or a Ten, or an 8 - all cards that can make an opponent's hand. As it was you are probably correct that you're only going to get called by a winner.


If you do one thing in these tournaments, just one, it's don't make these undersized bets (and even worse, raises - it makes me feel ill). And if you do another, then don't follow up an undersized bet with an oversized one at the point where your opponent has either made his hand or not, and can make an easy decision.


Andy.

First off, I'm probably as new to NL as you are, so this advice may be way off base.


Personally I would have jammed this pot after the flop. With AK what else could you be looking to flop? If they both fold - GREAT, there are way too many other card combinations that can beat me by drawing out. AK with an A or K flopped is not a drawing hand, it's a jamming hand.


Your bet on the turn was pretty weak. T100 into a T855 pot. You're allowing J-9, 7-9, and QJ to hit their 8 outers very very cheaply. I'd go all in here and let the chasers pay dearly to catch up to me.


The K on the river is somewhat scary. It gives you top two pair, but it also gives QJ the nuts. I think you're all in bet was a bit much. If you get called you're beat, and then what?

I missed QJ having 8 outs on the flop - good spot.


Andy.

Thanks Andy,


I was hoping to hear from you. Hopefully I'm progressing here. I especially appreciate the pre-flop bet size comment.


I wanted to go all-in on the turn but was worried about someone slow-playing a set or two pair. Would you expect that they would have raised the flop in those cases?

Thanks,


I'm not happy at all with the turn or river bet, but I might still play the flop the same way. I just hate the thought of going out so early to a set of 8's or 10's. If i make it 300, I don't think the Q-J holder has the right odds anymore. Once I wasn't raised on the flop I think I can assume the set's aren't out there and probably push in on the turn.

your assumption that if you aren't raised on the flop means that the sets aren't out there is faulty. A lot of players - especially players online - get greedy with sets. If they see that you are betting out (and having raised before the flop), they will think their set is something they can trap you (and bust you) with. I see flat calls on the flop and then a huge raise on the turn as the "online standard" way of playing a set - raise big, hope for a call and a double through.


Just a thought,

Sam

If I had a set on that board it is unlikely I would raise on the flop. That board is about as perfect as possible assuming the original raiser has a big ace. Even that turn card is not scary for someone with 88 or TT. Sure there are straight draws out there but I may well wait until the river to pounce.


With 2 pair it is possible I would raise or lead into the original raiser or wait until the turn.


Ken Poklitar

ohKanada@hotmail.com

Preflop- A 40 raise is too small. I would raise the size of the pot.


On the flop- I would bet the pot, and probably fold if reraised, but maybe not. It would depend on the opponent and whether they could do this with a worse hand or a draw. If a flush draw was possible as well, I would definitely call all-in.


On the turn- All-in or check. I would expect the early position player that checked to be weak or drawing, so your only danger is the player behind you. I would therefore take my chances and bet all-in.


"Would someone slow-play a set in this position? or two pair? Wouldn't they have raised the flop? I don't want to give a free card, but I'm not sure I'm ahead. I bet T100. Both call again."


This bet shows weakness. I would expect the player behind would have raised the turn, if he was strong, to force the early player out. In fact after your showing weakness, a really good player could bluff here.


On the river- A loose player could have called with worse hands. Personally, I wouldn't have called you unless I beat you. This is because you show weakness on the turn then go all-in on river. It would look to me as if the K helped you. Your turn bet size was really bad.


If I was you, by this point in the hand I would have put both my opponents on weak hands or a draw, so I may have checked and called here, so the opponent could bluff the hand. If he did make the straight then I'd just have to bust.

Given your comments Ken, which is exactly what I was afraid of, how would you have played the hand?