Was a push on hand 1 justified?

[sirtemple]

On the first hand of a small buy-in MTT, I picked up pocket 8's in the small blind. The entire table limped up to the button who min raised. I figured my eights were probably best, but could not play against a large field. I decided to push in. I didn't think the limpers would call and the min raiser might, but probably have a worse hand. Maybe a weak ace or two overcards.

As it happened the table folded back to the button, who did call w/ KJs.

I think his call was very bad, but that doesn't neccesarily mean my push was good does it? I've never pushed that early in a tourny before and it felt wierd, but at the time it seemed logical.
Is pushing on hand 1 ever justified?

Jason

[willie]

not with 8s.

and basically never preflop, unless you're doing it with aces or kings and just tryin to get a laugh.

There is really no reason to attempt this move on hand 1, if you are a decent player you'll be able to find larger edges throughout the rest of the game to exploit. Much larger than a cointoss at least.

[SossMan]

why not see a flop...certainly you have better implied odds than being called by overcards. if you flop a set, there should almost certainly be sometone there to pay you off.

[ZootMurph]

It was a bad call, but a worse push. You MAY have the best hand, but early in a tournament you want to maximize your winnings. You could have made a bunch of chips if you hit your set, while losing almost none of your stack if you don't. EARLY in a tournament, you should be playing small and medium pairs for set value, not staking your whole tournament on a coin toss. Worse, in a small buy in tournament, there are a lot of players who are not strong enough players to fold to an all in bet, so you have to assume that someone will call at least 50% of the time. All in all, I think that is a terrible play by both you and the KJs caller.

Remember you aren't going to win the tournament in one hand. The best tournament players are the ones that grind it out and pick their spots... that wasn't a spot to pick [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[37offsuit]

Pushing on hand one is justified in any situation where pushing is a good move. Other than having reads, hand one is no different than any other hand in a tournament.

I think in this hand, where everyone is likely to call you have more than enough odds to just call yourself and play for set odds. If you make a set against that large a field, someone is bound to pay you off. If you hit your set you have a good chance of more than doubling up. On the other hand, you can get away from the hand cheap if you miss. The way you played this, if your read is correct and you get it heads up against overcards, you've certainly got the right odds, but half the time you're done and half the time you do a little better than double up. That's if no one in between decides to call with their higher pair or if you end up against more than one opponent where there are 3 or 4 over cards to your pair. A lot depends on the way the tournament plays. Sometimes in the low buy ins you see 3 or 4 people all in on the first hand, a chain reaction of pushing.

[DVC Calif]

If this was a freezeout tourney, pushing on the first hand is very reckless unless you have a monster hand. I agree with other posters that you should have called the minraise and hoped you made your set on the flop. Easy check-fold if overcards land on the board.

If this is a rebuy/add-on (like on Poker Stars), then that's a different story. Lots of loose aggressive players in R/A tourneys make these exact type of play to double/triple up early to a large stack. If you bust, you can always rebuy another stack.

Steve

[zaxx19]

DVC does that mean pushing 8s in a rebuy would be correct?? Now I know why I hate rebuy tourneys lol. Seriously though is this a serious post?? Is this a joke>?? The call was even worse than the push but cmon do you think pushing with 8s is ever good preflop in the first few levels of any non-rebuy [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] toureny??

[pokerstudAA]

"I figured my eights were probably best, but could not play against a large field."


Your eights are great against a large field if you hit an AK8 flop or any flop with an 8. I guarantee that you could pick up just as many chips if you just take your changes on flopping an 8 - rather than risking all your chips pre-flop. Otherwise, your eights are pretty much garbage. Some players who might limp 10s, Js from an EP might call your all-in simply because it looks like a "move." Some limper with AQ or AJ or in this case KJ might see this as his chance to double up - and it could be at your expense.

Additionally, people like me limp aces on the 1st hand just so people will push weak hands directly into them.

[sirtemple]

Thanks for the candid remarks. I see where my logic went awry. Pushing gave me the best chance to win the hand, not the tournament. My focus was/is too short-sighted. This is the same reason I can't always release a premium starting hand when it hits a bad flop.

Thanks
Jason