Foxwoods 10K hand

[HiatusOver]

This is a hand a friend played, I though it was interesting.

Blinds 25-50 no ante, Friends Stack 13K, Opponents Stack 14K.

Folded to friend in Cut-off with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], he raises to 300. The Big Blind (Stan Goldstein, older tourney pro) calls.

Flop is 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Stan checks, friend BETS 300, Stan RAISES to 1200 total, Friend RAISES to 3000 total. What do you think so far? Was 3000 the right number? Anyone just call? Push? Make a different sized raise? Results and more questions later...

[jslag]

Depends, I don't know Goldstein's style at all, but I might consider just smooth-calling his 1200 raise and seeing what card comes on the turn. If it's a not a diamond, then I hope he bets and I can make a big raise/push. If the board pairs and he keeps betting, then I'd smooth-call and put it all in on the river.

[j0wlev]

I think Stan has a smaller set. You fail to mention if Stan calls outta early limp, the blinds, the button, or middle limp.

Your friend made a big sized pre-flop raise, 300 to go with only 200 in the pot when he opened it. My guess here is Stan thinks 2 things big pair or steal. This merits his 33 holding and hitting a set, going on the implied odds and deep money.

When I hit my set of 8s I would have probably moved in on Stan when he raised, not letting him draw to that flush and if he thinks of you as LAG player, you'll get a call from middle set which is a huge underdog.

If you were not push em in on this flop, I see a raise of 4800-6000 a little better defining of your hand. It says to him you have an overpair because it looks like your trying to shut him out and he'll most definately call. The 3k raise is a little over a min raise and looks like you want action on it. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Apathy]

I really do not like smooth calling here because if stan does have another set a diamond on the turn might kill your action. Also if stan has an overpair here he might not get away from it if friend is an aggresive player, once again smooth calling kills you action if a diamond falls. I would reraise to around 4-5000 hoping stan puts you on 99-AA.

-CPJ

[zaxx19]

Im just curious, but do "smaller" or "bigger" sets really enter peoples reads at times?? They seem so rare that I almost discount them on a flop unless in a raised one its an ace. Maybe im just not advanced enough to see these situations but ive only flopped set under set maybe 7 times in perhaps 10000 hands or something.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
Im just curious, but do "smaller" or "bigger" sets really enter peoples reads at times?? They seem so rare that I almost discount them on a flop unless in a raised one its an ace. Maybe im just not advanced enough to see these situations but ive only flopped set under set maybe 7 times in perhaps 10000 hands or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Zaxx, you are probably used to watching WSOP hands where every hand is for all of someones chips, and usually someone is bluffing or doesn't have a great hand.

In the 10k events, when all of a sudden two players wake up and start committing large %'s of their stack.... you can't assume its an SNG or some online tourney. Considering the BB could probably easily fold hands like 99 or 1010 at this point, you have to assume he has something better. Considering he called a raise, 83,82, and 23 are unlikely (but possible). He may have smooth called with QQ-AA to be tricky, but I think thats about just as likely as him flopping a lower set. A hand like 22 or 33 is very possible, and goes along with how he is playing the hand perfectly.

While set over set doesn't happen often, it doesn't mean you should ignore the possibility when the facts are highly suggesting it.

[zaxx19]

Hey, nice job reading.

I said PLAY hands, not watching hands on TV.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, nice job reading.

I said PLAY hands, not watching hands on TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am saying that you most likely haven't played any hands in 10k buy in events, and that comparing this to your small buy-in MTT's isn't a great comparison.

I think that in Party MTT's, all of a sudden a player who has been playing for two hours will committ all of his chips with TPTK out of nowhere, despite great aggressiveness from a tight player. I think that in the 10K events, for the most part, chips don't fly back and forth in these stages unless both players have a big hand.

Set under set simply does happen, and there are times when you can get a read on it and play accordingly to that read. This is one of those situations where it is much more likely considering the rag board. It certainly does not guarantee there is a lower set... he COULD be on a bluff. I'm just telling you maybe you should give the read more credit, considering the board.

[BK_]

read foxwoodfiends post in the mid-high nl forum for a situation where a guy with top boat legitametly felt his hand was vulnerable to a c/r from rivered quads

[cero_z]

Hi Hiatus,

This is a pretty interesting hand. The pre-flop raise seems huge to me--I wonder if that colored the reaction from Stan?

If this took place at my table at this stage, the caller in the BB (Stan in this case) would've had a big pair for sure. He probably would also put the raiser on a very good hand, and thus be trapping. So, I wouldn't fear a flush draw at all (well, maybe just a little), and would definitely just call the check-raise with top set, hoping to get him for most of his chips if a harmless-looking card came off on the turn. If you re-raise the flop, you only get paid by AA (maybe) and a set, which will usually pay you off no matter what. This possibility of Stan getting trapped with an overpair is all set up by the large open-raise.