TT in CO; Overpair on flop.

[flair1239]

Reads: UTG1: "fish". Raiser is "loose Aggressive" PF, and Passive post flop. MP2: "fish". MP3: Fish

I missed the raise PF with the thought that the pot was mutli-way already and with a raise and (2) cold callers I would either need to be an overpair after the flop or hit my set.

I cold called on the flop with the intention of raising any blank on the turn. After the flop was three bet I felt like I might be behind, however felt that the pot was now to big to fold and ended up calling down.

Please harshly criticise all streets.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

River: (14.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB

[GrunchCan]

I'm OK with the PF coldcall. I wouldn't always 3-bet TT, but it's on the cusp. Since you don't have a read on the PF raiser, in this case I'l prb call the 2 cold. JJ I usually 3-bet (85%), QQ or higher is 100%.

On the turn, you have an overpair, a gustshot to the second nut, and a backdoor flush draw. You probably have the best hand, and if you don't you have about 6 outs. I'm aggressive with this hand, mostly for value. Raise.

By raising the flop, the action likely changes on the turn &amp; river. But the turn and river don't change the value of your hand too much except to reduce your drawing odds. Unless I meet with resistance, I'm still aggressive on the turn &amp; the river.

[Peter Harris]

he did have a read on the PF raises - LA-P.

Because of this, i'd 3-bet PF, and raise the flop, even though PFR is passive postflop. If MP1 3-bets/cap the flop and leads the turn, i guess you can respect JJ-AA and call down. However, i probably cap the flop and pop one turn bet before slowing down...

Regards,
Pete Harris

[GrunchCan]

he did have a read on the PF raises - LA-P.

right, i see that now. in that case, a 3-bet PF for sure.

[Frog321]

Why do you think he has the best hand on the flop? Looks to me like he is behind to the PF raiser's bigger pair (he's passive postflop but not slowing down here) or even set (loose PF, so not impossible). Plus you've got the other "fishy" flop raiser, who could also have a bigger pair. So he looks way behind to me. What does raising accomplish?

[GrunchCan]

Looks to me like he is behind to the PF raiser's bigger pair

I think you are seeing monsters under the bed. You have no particular reason to think the PFR had a big PP. It could bet ATs, T9s, 72o... The point is, you don't know what the PFR has. Assuming he has AA or KK just becasue he PFR is weak.

[Frog321]

He is supposed to be passive postflop, though. He bet, then reraised. Do most passive players do that with something like ATs? If the read wasn't passive, I'd agree with you. You are advocating a raise. Someone besides hero did that and passive re-raised. To me that means either the read is wrong or hero is probably behind. A pair bigger than TT is not exactly a monster under the bed.

[DeathDonkey]

I like the preflop coldcall with so many others already in. Though I don't think 3 betting would be bad, recognize your going to be tossing your tens on a lot of flops anyway. I would definitely 3 bet the flop, I know the pot is big and they may not go anywhere, but confront them with as many bets now as you can and see what MP1 does with it when it comes back to him. If he caps I am in call down mode or fold to certain river cards unless the straight comes in.

-DeathDonkey