shaky shortstack move?

[River2Pair]

NL tourney at the Bike

me in SB ~6000
BB ~4000
EP~5000

blinds 200/400 with a 50 ante, 9-handed. Three tables away from the money.

EP limps, I limp with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB checks.

EP seems decent, but has made a few questionable calls, thinking his nut no pair was good, that sort of thing. Seems aggressive enough.

BB is a young, crazy, loud Asian player.

Flop comes down Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

I bet 800. BB goes into the tank, mumbles something about how I must have him outkicked, and folded.

EP calls without too much hesitation.

Turn is J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

I feel like a deer in the headlights here. I mean, he must have something, and I don't have enough chips to move him off his hand. The antes/blinds are going up quickly, and though this hand could possibly bust him, I didn't think he could fold any sort of made hand at this point.

I check. EP bets 1000.

I go into the tank. I have seen him make enough moves with nut no pair type hands, that I figured all my outs were live, 4 sixes, 3 sevens, and 3 eights.

I considered folding, but then I wouldn't have many chips left and this pot was pretty large. I called.

River was 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for the nut straight. I quickly pushed in my remaining 1300 or so, and he called, showing K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], on his way out the door.

Turns out he had a pretty bitchin' draw too. Not sure what he saw on the flop though.

Anyway, could I have played this any differently? With the blinds and antes going up so quickly, I didn't feel that check/folding the flop was an option.

[River2Pair]

oops, it was 3/6 w 100ante. Big difference.

[adanthar]

I would find at least three folds somewhere in this hand starting preflop.

I like your river bet with the nuts, though!

[River2Pair]

fold suited connectors in SB with all those antes in there?

anyhow, I guess it was a nice suckout. I actually thought that there might be a lot of river cards I could bluff, but I forgot in that moment that my read on EP was that he was bluff-proof.

[schwza]

first, EP is horrible, not good.

if EP is the kind of guy who will call a flop bet with KT high, you don't want to complete here. you want to make a big pair against this kind of player and these micro-stacks. against a tighter player you'd be happy enough making a play with a flush draw or OESD, but here you should fold pre-flop.

on the flop, why bluff the unbluffable guy? pretty much anything he'd limp with, he'd call your bet with (apparently).

the call on the turn is bad. you don't have any idea if he has a Q or a J in his hand. yes, you believe that he'd play this was if he didn't, but if villain had had KJ instead of KT there's no way you'd have known it and you'd be putting in way too many chips with a gutshot.

the river is fine.

[Synth]

What I see here is alot of commitment with a draw with only 10 BB's left.

What would you have done if you didn't hit that draw? If this player is none bluffable you can't scare him out with a river bet (not that you have the chips to do that anyways).
Secondly, you semi-bluffed the flop with a bet of $800 on the hopes of.....? If you know the player can't be bluffed why would you bet out 800? To eliminate 1 player? Why not push all in on the flop if your intention was to continue right down to the river with this draw?

A little explenation would be appreciated

[River2Pair]

[ QUOTE ]
What I see here is alot of commitment with a draw with only 10 BB's left.

What would you have done if you didn't hit that draw? If this player is none bluffable you can't scare him out with a river bet (not that you have the chips to do that anyways).

-Check and fold, unless I hit a 6, 7, or 8. My pot odds weren't really there on the turn, but if I fold on the turn or call on the turn, I figure I'm pretty much crippled either way.

Secondly, you semi-bluffed the flop with a bet of $800 on the hopes of.....? If you know the player can't be bluffed why would you bet out 800? To eliminate 1 player? Why not push all in on the flop if your intention was to continue right down to the river with this draw?

--Good point. I don't play many tournaments, so I'm not very experienced at playing NL short stacked. I hoped to pick up the pot on the flop. I actually expected EP to fold. All of the shaky post-flop calls I saw him make earlier were in raised pots. Also, an all-in would have appeared weak, so BB may have called if he really had a queen with a bad kicker (he claimed later that he had Q7, but I am about 50/50 as to whether I believe him). With that flop bet I thought I'd get raised by a queen and have an easy fold. I know that sort of contridicts my crippled either way argument. I expected to either pick up the pot right there, or get raised. Getting called just left me in a state of utter confusion.

A little explenation would be appreciated

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