Seeking your opinion

[Bigwig]

If you recall I posted a thread about some things I've done using Pokerstove and basic game theory. Before we get to the meat of the results, I want to get some feedback on the range of hands I've used.

Please let me know what adjustments you think I should make to the following groups (ie, you think they're pretty good, excellent, drop this hand, add these hands, etc.). Remember, this is typical raisers in the $20-$50 SNG range, not 2+2ers.

This assumes a 'typical' raiser, which would be adjusted, of course, depending on if you know that the player is LAG or TAG. It also assumes the standard 3 or 4 BB raise.

1. UTG, no limpers, opening raiser range of hands:

AA-88
AKs-ATs
AKo-AJo
KQs-KJs
KQo

2. MP, no limpers, opening raiser range of hands:

AA-77
AKs-A7s
AKo-ATo
KQs-KTs
KQo-KJo
QJs
QTs
JTs

3. CO, no limpers, opening raiser range of hands:

AA-55
AKs-A5s
AKo-A7o
KQs-KTs
KQo-KJo
QJs
QTs
JTs

4. Button, no limpers, opening raiser range of hands:

AA-33
AKs-A2s
AKo-A4o
KQs-K9s
KQo-KTo
QJs-Q9s
QJo
JTs-J9s
T9s
98s

5. SB, no limpers, opening raising hands:

AA-22
Any A
Any K with a kicker of 7 & up
QJs-Q9s
QJo
JTs-J9s
T9s
98s

Thanks for your feedback.

[adanthar]

The $20 and the $50 people are, like, REALLY different in what they'll open raise. The typical $20 player doesn't really know the difference between UTG and MP, for example.

Also, this doesn't really make much sense during early levels (most people don't raise 77 early from any position)...you might want to narrow your question down a bit.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
The $20 and the $50 people are, like, REALLY different in what they'll open raise. The typical $20 player doesn't really know the difference between UTG and MP, for example.

Also, this doesn't really make much sense during early levels (most people don't raise 77 early from any position)...you might want to narrow your question down a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not asking me 'narrow' the question, you're asking me to broaden it. I realize it's impossible to do be ideal when posing such questions. I'm only looking to set up general parameters. I'm fully aware that one size doesn't fit all. And it may not be 'early' levels, if it's a multi.

[A J Carisse]

I've got a "different" philosophy of raising than most. I don't want to go into any real detail here as this typically leads to multi-day arguments with the whole board, which I really don't have the time for now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The first thing that stands out for me is - this is all going to depend on a lot of factors. How many people are in the game? What stage are the blinds at? How many chips do you have, and what's your relative standing? How are your opponents playing? (taking a LOT of things into consideration, not just the texture of the table).

And most importantly by far, how do these suggested standards mesh with your personal style? Let me give you an example of what I mean by this. Let's take QJo. It's an easy one. One of the most overplayed hands in poker, but that's just my opinion. Say you raise with it 2x and get 2 callers. You can't be too sure you're even ahead with this hand at this point, and in most cases you're not in fact. Now, you've got to hit your hand, which in most cases is a Q or J. 1/3 of the time this is going to happen. And when this does, 1/4 of those hits are going to have an overcard in it. So now we're down to 1/4 of the time, you'll get a pair without an overcard. Of those situations, you don't have a killer hand by any means, and could be pretty much dead in fact (AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ). Should the hand proceed to the turn and river, you've got to be concerned about overcards coming up there as well. So when you put this all together, this isn't such a great hand to be committing extra bets with in most cases anyway, at least with my own style of play. I'm throwing this trash away in most cases in fact. The point here is that I'm factoring in what I'm going to do with a hand in particular situations when I'm calculating the odds I have here.

So from a general perspective, in looking at which hands I'm going to want to raise with. what I'm looking to do is put extra bets in the pot in cases where I'm likely to have the best of it. 3 people in the pot, and I'm the favorite, and this is a hand that I'll be able to stick with, then I'm going to do it. Again though this is only because it fits into my own personal style of play.

Here's the question you need to ask for this discussion to be meaningful for you. WHY do you raise with a certain hand in a certain position? What advantages do you see that having? I'd be very curious to know how you came up with this list in fact.

Whatever you end up with, make sure you realize that this needs to be completely flexible depending on the particular circumstances of the game.

A.J.

[Hydro]

AJo UTG raise? not good. AJ is overrated, along with KQo

[reecelights]

He's not HE would raise it. He's saying the AVERAGE player would raise AJ in EP. I agree. The average player doesn't realize the risks in raising let alone playing AJ in EP/MP