Monday Hand: Underpair with Flush Draw Board

Here is a hand from the Monday Shorthanded Group. Mind you that UB made the table 6 handed so its not technically shorthanded anymore.


I (vinny) have red 77 and open raise UTG+1. Only Azreal calls in one of the blinds. Heads-up.


Flop is Tc 6c 3d


Azreal bets, I call.


Turn board is Tc 6c 3d [Ks]


Azreal bets, I call.


Final board Tc 6c 3d Ks 7s


Azreal bets, I raise, Azreal calls.


Comments on my approach to this hand appreciated.


KJS

Vinny have red 77 and open raise UTG+1. Only Azreal calls in one of the blinds. Heads-up.


"Flop is Tc 6c 3d "

I thought the flop was Tc-8c-4d or Tc-9c-4d, not sure, you're probably right.


I thought I/Azreal checked, Vinny bet and I check/raised.


The rest is the same, pretty much.

Apparently no one cares but us, but I remember it the way it is posted. You bet, I called, and my pair was between the highest card and next highest.


What I left out was that my impression of you was that you played more aggressively with draws (and other semi-bluffs) than good made hands. That is why I just called you down. Until I sucked out of course [img]/images/wink.gif[/img]


KJS

I'm pretty sure I check/raised, not that it really matters.


I thought your calling was a mistake because a flush draw with overcards would be a favorite on the flop against a pair of 77's and of course top pair is a favorite. So you would either be a small dog or a big dog. I might play second or third pair this way, so you having a pair bigger than them both is important.

I've been thinking about this some and am not sure about the play. Later on when you guys were out of the game I called a maniac down w/ 77 on a dangerous board and won. So I certainly see KJS point, although the guy I called down was nowhere close to Acehigh in ability, rationality, etc... I think though that if the opponent is not a maniac, the 77 hand should probably play more aggressively and not just call down, or fold. In HPFAP there is a part in theshorthanded section where Mm and DS say to treat the flop like the top card was gone. I am going from memory and don't think the situation was exactly this one, but it might be a helpful guideline here. The two flush is dangerous and gave Acehigh a big hand, but I think in shorthanded pots that has to be considered less. So I am still not sure, but one way I am looking at it is to give less weight to the 2 flush and ignore the T on the board. (I WOULD NOT ignore an A on the board in a blind defense situation though.) Well, maybe I did once last night to my detriment. Anyway, if the board were 6c 3d 2h, what should KJS do? Maybe play more aggressively but he still has a problem hand.


And the more I think about it, the harder I think small and mid pairs are to play in this shorthanded (sort of) game. People will defend with many overcard hands, so the flops are usually dangerous. At the turn there are so many defending hands with K's or T's that 77 is tough to play. And if you consider the game not shorthanded, it should probably be folded pre flop. Who would open raise w/ 77 in an agressive full game? World beaters, but not me. Yeah, 77 can catch that unimproved AK or AQ, but it is hard to play.


So that is a long way of saying I am not sure, except that KJS played it to perfection by knowing how to catch a 7 on the end. :-)

When I say open raise w/ 77 I mean in the position KJS was. UTG +1. Clearly a later open raise is better. But given how the hands play in the shorthanded pots, small-mid pairs are sometimes difficult to play. 55 more so than 88 etc....

I think it is a much closer decision, than I thought last night.

It seemed to me that I was the most tight pre-flop player there so I chose to open raise there because I thought I might get credit for a better hand.


I agree that these hands are hard to play. The one I posted was, that is part of the reason I figured "let's roll 'em out and see who's best". Certainly I would have raised if I had an overpair but thought that AceHigh might re-raise with just clubs so I avoided that option in the hand above.


KJS

I would have raised the turn. You may pick up the

pot immeadiately and if your opponent is on a draw

you are charging him two bets. When the King comes and you raise you very well may get a Ten

to fold.


Bruce

But if he re-raises with a draw, I might fold. That was my feeling throughout the hand: i don't want to get into a pissing contest with him due to my shaky, but maybe best, holding. I want to get to the end and see who is best. Still not sure this approach is good but thinking more about it since I have been playing these sessions. Many times it is the person who puts in the most bets that wins. I wanted to take the aggression away from my opponent so I played very passively, that way losing the minimum if I was behind, which I thought I might be. But, I thought I might be ahead as well. Still, I was not sure enough to start jacking him up, because I know he very well might semi-bluff me right back, putting me in a tough spot.


KJS

(who really needs to get his commas under control)