Very Weird Line I took

theBruiser500 · #1 11-13-2004, 01:45 PM

5/10 NLHE on PS, folded to me on button with JJ, I open for $30, SB calls. This is TwinCaracas, he is pretty tight post flop, one of the regular winnees in the game, straightfoward from what I've seen. Flop comes 227, he checks, I check, turn is 9, he checks, I bet $20. River is 7, he checks, I bet $150, he instantly raises to $450.

On the one hand, the way I set this play up it's tough for me to fold there. On the other hand, I don't think he's capable of doing that without having a 7 or 2. But... how could he check/call the turn and check the river to me with that action? Seems too likely I'll check/behind.

What do you think of the whole line I took? I'm playing around with Ray Zee's idea of underbetting the pot, from that post he made in the archives.

theBruiser500 · #2 11-13-2004, 01:49 PM

The $150 bet btw was supposed to be an agressive value bet against ace high.

1800GAMBLER · #3 11-13-2004, 03:32 PM

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Wheezl · #4 11-13-2004, 03:53 PM

How much more did each of you have behind you when he makes that check raise on the river? From your description of the player Im inclined to think hes got you beat, especially if there is a decent amount of money left in each of your stacks when he pops you back on the river. Would he flat call the preflop bet with something like A7s,78s,99,77 against a button raise? I guess its possible hes just putting you on paint cards that missed, and he has a smaller wired pair you beat. I just dont see too many hands a tight straightforward player would have here that you can beat.

theBruiser500 · #5 11-13-2004, 04:09 PM

He is fairly loose preflop against me when we're in blinds or I'm in LP, situations like that...

bogey · #6 11-13-2004, 07:36 PM

i dont like this hand at all, you got exactly the flop you wanted for JJ you have to bet something, luckily the turn was a good one, here you have to bet a little more than $20, not necessarily the whole pot but more than you did, the $20 bet is asking to be bluff check-raised, is that what you wanted? I generally don't like being checkraised big with JJ.

I definitely check the river behind after that other 7 falls too. To you really think that A high would call an overbet here? If you want to value bet against A high make it about $50 so he actually might call you with a worse hand.

All in all i think the hand was played pretty backwards.

foldem · #7 11-13-2004, 08:28 PM

Hi Bruiser, I do not play this high of a limit but I would like to comment on the hand. I think the crux of the hand is how the SB precieves your river bet. Do you think he reads you for having an A or K high. If so I think you need to pay off his river raise, since it is very likely he is trying to move you off your most likely holding of A high.

I think there is a good chance the SB makes this play with A9. I do not think a 2 or 7 is likely from the way the hand was played. Is a slowplayed AA-QQ a possibility? Either way it is a tough river decision and I am curious to hear what you chose to do and why.

cockandbull · #8 11-13-2004, 10:05 PM

I think your good here. The fact you've both played a bit together and the fact that your playing around with underbetting the pot, leads me to belive sb is trying to take this away from you. I think by underbetting you've got what you wanted, but its giving you different questions to answer.

Although i dont use/understand the underbet enough, i'd have thought that a one pair hand, other than AA/KK isn't the hand to do it with.

Harry

Kips Bay Kid · #9 11-13-2004, 10:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
5/10 NLHE on PS, folded to me on button with JJ, I open for $30, SB calls. This is TwinCaracas, he is pretty tight post flop, one of the regular winnees in the game, straightfoward from what I've seen. Flop comes 227, he checks, I check, turn is 9, he checks, I bet $20. River is 7, he checks, I bet $150, he instantly raises to $450.

[/ QUOTE ]
PF - Is he thinking you might be trying to steal the blinds?
Flop - Is he thinking even more you might have tried to steal the blinds by checking behind?
Turn - With your silly $20 underbet does he continue to think you were trying to steal the blinds? Probably not, but I am not sure if you have a history of underbetting on both strong-made hands as well as weak ones like this, maybe this is your leak?
River - With that large overbet you made does he think you are desperate in trying to win this pot, or does he have a history of slow playing?
Since he was in the SB and you really did not make an attempt to knock him off a hand I would have to fold to his river bet, he very likely has a hand that beats your hand and figured you would bet into him for his C-R to be successful.

I do not play at this level, but I would be surprised if that is how people play A-High on a double paired board (by raising $450 on the river into a ~$250 pot). But then again maybe he was just trying to throw you off this pot.

I would have bet that Flop and Turn stronger.

creedofhubris · #10 11-13-2004, 10:41 PM

There are three overcards to your JJ out there. Why try to trap him with that hand? Granted, you got a nice flop, but he could easily suck out on you to win the hand.

I'd be more likely to check a monster, AA, KK, or a pair of aces/pair of kings.

On the river, I've got no clue what he's holding, and so I most likely fold. (A straightforward player might have quad 2s here and be hoping you caught a boat somewhere.)