common turn situation

[turnipmonster]

I realize this is player dependent, but against your typical 5/10er I rarely pay this off. thoughts?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.20 BB

[Joe826]

well one of us is wrong most of the time, because i pay this off almost always. anyone?

[etizzle]

could he not have KT or K9? He probably would've raised the flop to see where he was at, but I still pay this one off.

[turnipmonster]

ok, so how does it change things if the 8s comes on the turn and you get checkraised (assume a 2c was the 3rd flop card instead)? what changes if it's the 8h?

I am curious if either one of those things makes anyone take a different strategy.

--turnipmonster

[Mike Mussina]

You could have checked the turn. See HEPFAP p.87

Even if he was on a heart draw, you can make the bet back when he takes a shot on the river.

[imported_stealthcow]

i wouldn't check the turn. its a straight up value you bet, and for the most part people call down with a lower pair, or even an overcard. that check raise probably means he has you dominated with a 3rd 8 or a better kicker, and either thinks you are semi bluffing with a flush draw or you have a weaker king then he does. either way you lay this down, unless you nkow this guy can try and get tricky

[turnipmonster]

yeah checking the turn doesn't seem all that attractive. I will get paid off with a worse K or a heart draw or random pocket pair too much of the time I think. it's a situation where my opponents will call down with anything, so I really need to maximize value bets against them since my bluffing equity is so low.

--turnipmonster

[Joe826]

yeah checking the turn sucks. i don't know. if i know the player i'm against is unimaginative and couldn't pull a bluff turn check/raise off then i'm obviously folding, but the average 5/10'er does ALOT of weird stuff and i very rarely credit them with sane play (especially when i only have to be right 1 in 5 or 6 times). anyone other experiened players wanna get in on this? i'm curious.

[turnipmonster]

FWIW, I would tend to call down more if the 8 came on the turn as opposed to on the flop, since most players will bet an 8 on the flop. thoughts? I think this is sort of interesting and would love to get some more experienced players thoughts. schneids? diablo? what factors do you consider in situations like this?

--turnipmonster

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
You could have checked the turn. See HEPFAP p.87

[/ QUOTE ]

On page 87 we read about how to play AA or KK when we raise preflop:

[ QUOTE ]
Now suppouse the flop come with a medium or small pair. Its checked to you, you bet, and a tough player calls. On fourth steet, the correct play is often to check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason is that a tough player calling is bad news, he will not call without a plan. He will fold a lower hand if you bet and checkraise if he is ahead (and sometimes cr as bluff). Therefore u check, hoping he will bluffbet river (which he often does), you call cause he can still have that trips.

But a normal player at 5/10 is not a tough player and will very often call flop without a plan, and without being able to lay down a worse hand then yours, specially not on a paired flop because "they know that flop didnt hit u". Therefore you valuebet.

Its important to remember that some of the plays in HEFAP only work against tight-aggressive, thinking players.