Does PP really have some of the best SNG players in the World?

[Desdia72]

or is Daliman giving them too much credit?

when i hear "best in the World", i'm automatically thinking of play on the level of Barry Greenstein, Daniel Negreanu, John Juanda, or Phil Ivey in a single table setting.

when i hear "best in the World", i'm automatically thinking of a higher sustainable ROI than 20% at the $200s, regardless of how many good players are at the table. after all, were talking about the "best in the World" right? surely, the best don't shy away from playing anyone.

what about Greg Raymer? countless people on this site think his tournament poker strategy and analysis is invaluable, to the point of saying they would buy his forthcoming tournament essay book. how would PPs best SNG players fare against him?

or what about if you were playing against David Sklansky, the mathematics guru who wrote the "magnum opus" of tournament poker?

are they really some of the "best SNG players in the World" or are they just the cream of the crop on Party?

this is'nt a diss or putdown thread. i'm more interested in how Daliman came to the conclusion that PP has some of the "best SNG players in the World" and whether anyone else would question his assertion as legitimate.

[citanul]

Des,

Link? I missed this statement from Daliman.

citanul

[slickterp]

yeah, link would be good.

[tolbiny]

"surely, the best don't shy away from playing anyone"

This is poker, not baseball. When given a chance at playing the yankees at home and all you are worried about is ticket sales then you play the yankees at home. When you have to win to eat/pay rent/enjoy your life you invite the detriot tigers to town. Even if you Can beat the yankees 6/10, why not just play detroit for the 7/10? If your only goal is to be the best that is one thing, if you are playing for money then your opposition will be entirely different.

[Grivan]

Desdia you give to much credit to the players you mention. There are a group of about 10-15 regulars at the part $215 tournaments and I would take any one of them over the pros you mentioned if they were to sit down in a PP SNG structure. Of course someone who has played tens of thousands of hours worth of these SNGs is going to be the best in the world at them if they have any learning comprehension at all. Of course I wouldn't take these guys in a chas game over Sklansky or Ivey of course, but that isn't the argument. I also think any of these guys could of held there own at the WSOP tournament of Champions 1 table tournament thing. I think you way underestimate the value of the internet.

The best in the world aren't going to play against the 9 other best in the world day in and day out that would be retarded for anyone. And I find it hard to believe that anyone would have a high ROI at a table against 9 of the good 215 regulars. I don't pay attention enough to know who these are although I do have ideas, but I don't think the statement that they are the best SNG players int he world is to far off base.

[Daliman]

Link where I said that

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
"surely, the best don't shy away from playing anyone"

This is poker, not baseball. When given a chance at playing the yankees at home and all you are worried about is ticket sales then you play the yankees at home. When you have to win to eat/pay rent/enjoy your life you invite the detriot tigers to town. Even if you Can beat the yankees 6/10, why not just play detroit for the 7/10? If your only goal is to be the best that is one thing, if you are playing for money then your opposition will be entirely different.

[/ QUOTE ]

if your goal is to simply earn the most money or ROI by playing the weakest opposition, that does'nt make you one of the best in my book. that simply means you're trying to earn the most money you can in the easiest way possible.

there are many players on all the sites who do this at every buy-in level where recognizing who the good players are and avoiding them is a key element to maximizing their earn rate. however, that does'nt make them the best at anything. one could argue that they developed good earning strategies based on some of the factors Daliman pointed out (in respect to the site they play) on.

[Grivan]

You can't be serious Desdia...

No smart poker player is going to search out the best competition and play them day in and day out. There is no prizefor being the best broke poker player in the world, as someone else put it. Think about it there are about 2 places in the world to play SNGs Stars and Party, and the high level Star's ones don't run often enough to matter. Ask yourself this then where are the best SNG players going to be playing?

[tolbiny]

"if your goal is to simply earn the most money or ROI by playing the weakest opposition, that does'nt make you one of the best in my book"

True, but it doesn't exclude the possibility that you are the best player. I was pointing out that someone who "could" play with dan harrington and phil ivey- still might not.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't be serious Desdia...

No smart poker player is going to search out the best competition and play them day in and day out. There is no prizefor being the best broke poker player in the world, as someone else put it. Think about it there are about 2 places in the world to play SNGs Stars and Party, and the high level Star's ones don't run often enough to matter. Ask yourself this then where are the best SNG players going to be playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

i did'nt say that you had to go searching for anybody; however, to say "i avoid tables where x-amount of good players are seated" definitely shows your intention to avoid playing players who are good. if you can't play against and hold your own against even the "supposed" best
players, how do you consider yourself one of the "best"?