Small PP - every step of the way.... what is the ABC?

kurto · #1 11-09-2004, 04:50 PM

Here's A hand I had. Just curious what the textbook play would be (if there is such a thing). (I listed results... but I think they have no bearing on how to play these)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

BB (Villain) ($15.85)
UTG ($7.75)
UTG+1 ($18.60)
MP1 ($24.40)
Hero ($14.05)
MP3 ($25)
CO ($16.20)
Button ($12.45)
SB ($17.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 4 folds, BB (Villain) checks.

I've seen some make a lot of money raising with a small pocket pairs. I don't know if such a low PP is worth putting too much money on (outside of certain tourny situations). I usually play them hoping to flop a set or I'm out (at least with multiple callers). What's the line on raising? Especially with only 4 players remaining? (Note: I was in MP2 - 4 left to act which includes the blind) Do most think a raise is necessary? Or just fold these lil' guys?

Flop: ($0.60) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero checks.

Here's what I often think. If he had an ace, he'd bet it. Probably the same with a 10. His check doesn't mean necessarily mean no board pair or no pocket pair, though head's up, its likely he'd have bet with anything, no? Should I have bet right out?

Turn: ($0.60) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $0.5, Villain calls $0.50.

He still doesn't bet. No new card that he could have paired. I make a tiny .50 stab at it. (probably too small, but heads up, with minimal pot, its often enough.) Too small? He calls... which doesn't tell me anything either way?

River: ($1.60) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero checks.

Bet again? Or is this a case where he'll only call if he has me beat? I mean... I only have a pair of 5s.

Final Pot: $1.60
Main Pot: $1.60, between Villain and Hero. > Pot won by Hero ($1.60).

Results in white below:
Villain has Qs Kc (one pair, tens).
Hero has 5h 5d (two pair, tens and fives).
Outcome: Hero wins $1.60.

Just curious how others play these hands to get the most of them. Fold em? Raise em? Cheap flop? Especially if you're the first to bet in middle position.

B1GF1SHY · #2 11-09-2004, 05:12 PM

I don't raise low pocket pairs unless I'm opening in late position hoping to either take the blinds or take down the pot on the flop. I try to hit sets in a multi pot and play it accordingly when it's heads up. No point in betting the river because if he has anything worth calling with then you're beat.

kurto · #3 11-09-2004, 05:23 PM

We play alike. Though I wonder... I see so many shorthanded, make big raises with low PP and win. I wonder if when you consider the number of times you'll have people fold, if its likely to be profitable? I know just cause other people do it, it doesn't make it right. But how often do you see pulling in big pots with small pocket pairs because they had the nerve to bet em?

Regarding betting the river... aren't we all guilty of calling small river bets with little or nothing, just to see what the other person is playing? I find it tempting sometimes to get another small bet or two. If you bet small, some people will call with nothing but Q high. Those tiny bets are often read as steals....

I agree with you. At least with good players, there's not much sense in betting. But with weaker players....

okayplayer · #4 11-09-2004, 05:28 PM

I would not bet the river. If you make a small river bet, and hope for him to call you with "little" - then his little beats your little, because your PP is smaller than everything on the board. Plus, a small bet leaves you open to a c/r when he does smell weakness, and you can't call a raise.

I don't raise small PP, I play them for set value - if it's folded to me in LP, I will raise, but mainly I play them for set value.

schwza · #5 11-09-2004, 05:29 PM

i'd have played the hand identically to how you played.

pre-flop: limp and hope for the set. if i were in the cut-off (one off button), i'd come in with a raise, but in your seat i'd limp.

flop: you got no piece and there are draws out there. see if you can spike the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

turn: if he's going to check twice, you're almost obligated to try to take the pot off him. also, with 2 clubs (and a number of gutshots) out there, there's a decent chance that you'll get called by a hand that's behind.

river: yes, check behind. i bet might fold out a 6 or 7 but i think you definitely should check this down.