Two big laydowns

[adanthar]

These are both during the same Party 50+5 SNG. The converter's a little broken; sorry if anything is off.

Villain in Hand 1 has previously played 1 hand of 8 or 9, raising it to t100 and eventually showing down KK.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed)

MP2 <font color="purple">(Villain)</font> (t1445)
Hero (t990)
CO (t975)
Button (t1165)
SB (t272)
BB (t975)
UTG (t2245)
UTG+1 (t950)
MP1 (t983)

Preflop:
Dealt to Hero [ Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t15, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 <font color="purple">(Villain)</font> raises to t125</font>, Hero calls t125, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">SB raises to t272 (All-In)</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 <font color="purple">(Villain)</font> raises to t1445 (All-In)</font>, Hero (says "I can't believe I'm folding this" and) folds.

In Hand 2, Villain has played somewhat tight/passive; with 6 and 7 left, he'd limped medium aces in the CO/button and checked them down when he missed, but has been tighter on the bubble. He's been willing to tangle with the three smaller stacks at the table, but avoided me when we were both big.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (3 handed)

Hero (t3705)
BB (t1410)
Villain (t4885)

Preflop:
Dealt to Hero [ T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
Button calls t300, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t900) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t900</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises to t1110 (All-In)</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t4585 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Discuss.

[EverettKings]

The villian's all in in hand 1 reeks of JJ, maybe AK to me. His bet was really big, trying to shove you out of the pot, and I would expect AA/KK to go for the overcall there. AA and KK certainly might push there, but I really think that you've got the best hand, and I make the call. The short stack all in could be AA-99, AK/AQs, etc, depending on the player. So you shouldn't be worried about him unless you have some miraculous read.

In hand 2 I have no idea why you wouldn't be raising TT in that spot. The blinds are big and you don't like very many flops. I raise at least enough to put the short stack all in, i.e. to t1500. If the big stack rolls all in over the top, you can let it go.

Just my 2 cents

[adanthar]

In Hand 2, if I raise to 1500 PF and the button pushes I'm getting 2.5:1 odds or more to call an all in, and basically have to go all in on any decent flop if he flat calls.

This very much factored into my PF limp.

[tallstack]

I play mostly $30s, but here are my thoughts on these.

In hand 1, I would not flat call. I would reraise all-in pre-flop. Once it came around to you again, you don't really care that much what the SB has, and the Villain's re-raise of a very short stack's all-in does not require a hand better than QQ. This is a much tougher call now, but I would lean towards calling.

In hand 2, I would raise all-in pre-flop here as well. Limping with TT in the money is not a good idea, IMO. You will not likely find many flops where you have a good sense of where you are after limping. I think it is much better to get HU or steal the blinds with this hand.

Once it came around with both players all-in on the flop, I would still call here. The short stack and the Villain will both have to beat you for you to finish 3rd, so you don't really give up a lot of equity even if you are behind. If you lose to the SB and beat the Villain then you come out well ahead. I wouldn't be surprised to see one opponent with a 9 and the other with a straight draw here. Easy call IMO.

Dave S

[Benholio]

I would raise both hands pre-flop.

On hand 2, if my PF raise didn't end up getting me all-in, I would have immediately pushed on that flop. Tens are pretty big 3-handed, and the flop isn't going to get much better for you than that.

[adanthar]

The replies are interesting because I had a feeling I played them both pretty decently at the time.

In 1, the minute he over-raised the pot I knew at the absolute best, QQ was only ahead of AK/JJ. I decided to treat it as I would JJ and play it for overpair value, but the minute he reraised all in I knew I was very beat.

I'd actually have been the third best hand because the SB's 32s(!) rivered a flush- but the board paired and the aces made their full house. At least the A and K on the flop would've made it easy to get away from.

I did fold a tournament winner in Hand 2- I'd have rivered a set against the BB's 82 and the button's trapping kings- but won it anyway a dozen hands later.

Hand 2 merits some more discussion, though. In retrospect I think I did play it wrong and have to raise. I don't believe the button plays a medium ace this way 3 handed and I'm not sure what else he could have limped that I'm ahead of, but I think I have to find out for sure PF with a minraise or 2.5x raise. If he reraised all in at that point I think it's a much easier fold than if I had overbet, and would save me a couple of hundred chips compared to a flop like this one.

Mostly, though, I posted this because I think at the $50 level you start seeing more plays like those two. They've been affecting my ROI significantly- I just couldn't trust overbets and bubble limps to be signs of a trap rather than weak play- and I think getting away from hands like these is a must at this limit.