Omaha 8, do you call double low draws?

Say you raise with a hand like A235 suited in O8, after 6 limpers.


Flop comes 7JJ.


Someone bets, do you call your double gutshot low draw? You basically have a nut low draw.


- Tony

You have to catch runner runner low cards to win half the pot. I'd throw it away.

what low draw??


be it high, or be it low, I never call it a draw unless there are 2 on the board


you didn't mention suites of the flop, so guess there is no flush draw for you, and if not , then you really don't have any draw

The first thing you should do is read the essay called "A Few Omaha Odds" by David Sklansky, which can be found on this site.


Yes, you should call. You'll make a low about 28% of the time and most of the time it will be the nut low. Since you (correctly) raised preflop, there should be at least 15 small bets in the pot. Since you'll win half the pot around 1/4 of the time you have an overlay.


Then again, what do I know.


Rube

Tony, As a rule of thumb, you can call ONE bet with a non counterfeitable BACKDOOR (or nearly so such as A24X) low draw and little else as long as the pot was raised before the flop and you have three or more opponents.


Regards,


Rick

How do you figure that?


Lets say there is a total of 4 players, a raise before the flop and a single bet on each of the other rounds. The pot would be 28 small bets and you have put in 5 of them since the flop.


You are playing for 14 small betts which you win 28% of the time. So your expected win is 3.92 for your investment of 5 those time you don't have to share the low side.

You put in 2 of those 5 small bets in preflop. Once you raised preflop and put in 2 small bets, they are part of the pot, and the decision is to continue on the flop with your double gutshot low draw. I guess it depends on how tenacious the opponents are also, if you should call the flop bet?


- Tony

Chaos,


I may have some flaws in my math and logic below but I know you can’t look at it from pre flop to finish. In other words, if you somehow knew your A23x was going to see a flop of QJ8 (with no flush draw) you wouldn’t play it. But you don’t know so you reevaluate post flop.


Keep in mind I only advise taking one off for one bet with position (i.e., you are not likely to get raised behind). If you have is a backdoor low with backup for half the pot you will make it 24.2 percent of the time per the Sklansky Essay on the 2+2 home page.


In a raised four-way pot you will have at least 8 small bets in pre flop. If someone bets the flop and there are a couple callers you have 11 small bets and have a 25% shot at half for one small bet. Of course you don’t continue unless a baby comes but some of those babies will give you half of a pot that could get jammed on the river.


Also note that pots with two high cards on the flop rarely get jammed on the flop and hands with no made low on the turn also don’t get jammed often. So you will usually get to draw cheaply. Of course if you make it you should be more willing to jam with a backdoor low then a regular low, especially if an ace or deuce makes your low (and perhaps counterfeiting the other low draw).


I’d love to see Louie Landale, Ray Zee, Pac Bell Buzz or OhNoNotAgain comment (even if they disagree).


Regards,


Rick

It depends on how many are coming in with you. I don't like the flop you cite in your example. A better one would be J94, where a strong high isn't made. Under optimal conditions you can take one off and hope for a dink (A or 2) to come.


If others call in front of you, or you think your call may bring in hitch-hikers, it can be a good play. If there are good players at the table, it may show them you are a chaser, and get you more action later.

it also depends on like you say, if you think you will be raised. also you have to add in any times you may hog it all by bluffing or making the high hand. from that take away the times you will split the low with someone. so you need to read the hands some, but many times it pays to take one off.