Two more - LAGtastic action?

topspin · #1 10-25-2004, 09:43 PM

Two more hands for comments. Hand 1 I'm mainly wondering about whether I should have raised the flop or just called down with top pair mid kicker. Hand 2 I'm mainly wondering about the turn bet, although with the flush draw out on the flop I'm also a bit curious if that slows anyone down.

Even if these are standard, a comment to that effect would be greatly appreciated. I'm feeling a bit lost in the midst of a -60BB downswing this session (my first for a single session) and a fair amount of second-guessing is starting to happen everywhere [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Hand 1: Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11.34 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 13.34 BB

Hand 2: Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (15 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

topspin · #2 10-26-2004, 12:07 AM

+bump+

LowDown22 · #3 10-26-2004, 12:17 AM

They both look pretty standard to me. I play it the same.

topspin · #4 10-26-2004, 08:36 AM

Hand 1: MP2 has QTo.

Hand 2: UTG+1 has KQo.

LaggyLou · #5 10-26-2004, 09:24 AM

Both well played. You need to take a break--just a half day or something--if you are beginning to question these types of plays. Yes, agressive play will lead to bigger losses sometimes. But it also leads to bigger wins.

On hand one in particular you must must must raise the flop. The second-to-last player to act could be betting with all sorts of hands that you are ahead of -- 3x 4x any2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 56 25 or even a single overcard hand like A9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. 7Sb is not a "tiny" pot by any means and your raise will likely make it heads up with the bettor. You can't possbly consider calling here and giving longshot draws like gutshots and 3x and 4x the proper odds to chase.

topspin · #6 10-26-2004, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Both well played. You need to take a break--just a half day or something--if you are beginning to question these types of plays. Yes, agressive play will lead to bigger losses sometimes. But it also leads to bigger wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably right. Oddly I didn't really feel that upset about my downswing last night, but I did find it harder to step on the gas pedal the last few orbits (at which point I stopped).

Ended the night down 65BB, but at least there were a few amusing hands like this one:

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG (poster) checks, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 caps, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button checks.

River: (14.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

Results in white below:
UTG+1 has 3c 3s (two pair, eights and threes).
Hero has Qd Qc (full house, queens full of eights).
Outcome: Hero wins 20.50 BB.

Post-hand chat:

BB: nh
Hero: ty
UTG: lucky

Villain was VP$IP 46.7%, TAF 2.9 -- if I'd had those stats for this hand, I'd have happily pumped away on the turn too.

Yobz · #7 10-26-2004, 10:53 AM

I think both preflop calls are borderline.
Hand 1
I like the flop raise although the pot is pretty small at this point.
Hand 2
Preflop call was pretty weak i think
I think you made the wrong decision on the flop, do not 3-bet it, that is way wrong. It is a tiny pot with giant amounts of aggression on a very scary board, i would fold or call but lean heavily toward folding here, its not worth it.

topspin · #8 10-26-2004, 11:42 AM

Q9s and KTo are standard PF calls in LP.

On the turn without the 2-flush a ram and jam is standard - we have top pair and an open-ended straight draw. With the two-flush, your equity goes down a bit if someone's got two spades, so a case can be made for slowing down, but it's closer than you seem to think.

Folding the flop in hand 2 would be horrible.

gvibes · #9 10-26-2004, 03:30 PM

I agree that both are played well - hand 1, in particular, is perfect.

In hand 2, I would maybe check the turn, fearing a check-raise by mp3, but 80% of the time, I bet, I think.