I didn't realize party was this fishy 10+1

[bforester]

NL Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Level:6 Blinds(150/300) - Wednesday, October 13, 13:40:27 EDT 2004
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: kibitzer ( $2880 ) button
Seat 3: uncooperative ( $1930 ) small blind
Seat 6: wtf? ( $1390 ) big blind
Seat 8: Hero ( $1800 ) utg
Trny:6468776 Level:6
Blinds(150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 9d Ad ]
Hero is all-In.
kibitzer folds.
uncooperative calls [1650].
wtf? is all-In.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, 7c, 4s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 2h ]
Hero shows [ 9d, Ad ] a pair of aces.
uncooperative shows [ Ac, Jc ] a pair of aces.
wtf? shows [ 9c, Tc ] high card ace.
wtf? finished in fourth place.
Hero finished in third place and won $20.
uncooperative wins 820 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of aces with jack kicker.
uncooperative wins 4170 chips from the main pot with a pair of aces with jack kicker.

I've only been playing Party tourneys for about a week, but this hand was bizarre.

[stupidsucker]

A lot of fish love to play those suited connectors. They think they are a better calling hand against an all in because of the several different ways to hit. In some ways they are on the right track, but it is still no good.

Besides he totaly ignored the fact that no matter who won the all in between the 2 already involved the other would be gone or crippled badly.

WTF!

[bforester]

Yes, wtf? has made the biggest mistake I have seen in tourney's I've played. He is going in my buddy list. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[rickw]

Newbie question here. Agreed that the all in at that point was crazy. But what would a sensible player have to have in order to call in wtf?'s place (taking into account the allin, the call, being shortstacked on BB, bubble situation, etc.)?

[rjb03]

AA or KK if you're playing for first. He could just have sat out and nearly been guaranteed to be in the money.

[stupidsucker]

I agree with the above poster.

AA or KK is needed to call in this situation. If you could see the cards before you call you might be able to add QQ and JJ to the mix.

[SeesTheRiver]

that might have been funniest thing i have ever saw. last night there was 4 people left a guy had 200 chips outta the blinds and went all in with 8-3 i had about 400 chips and the big blind of 600 was coming my way. so i sat out and took 3rd place...gotta love stupid people.

[rickw]

Thanks. So just so I understand the reasoning, after the all in and the call, AKs for example is not good enough. (I guess the theory being you need a better hand to call 2 all ins than you would to go all in in the first place, esp. on bubble where someone is going to get knocked out or shortstacked).

Is that correct?

[stupidsucker]

Even with AKs you will lose about 40% of the time against A9 and AJ in a 3way pot.

I didnt run it with the ICM, but I am fairly sure this is not good odds for even AKs.

If YOU fOlD you are almost guaronteed a $ position.

[wjmooner]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks. So just so I understand the reasoning, after the all in and the call, AKs for example is not good enough.

Is that correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just wanted to revisit this with an example from a SnG I played yesterday on Stars. 5 left. Short stack pushes UTG (he still had T1500 w/ bb at 200, so not a desparate push though)

I wake up with QQ in the SB and reraise to 3000, just to cover the BB (I had 4000, BB had 2500).

BB still calls with AT. He spikes an A and I go from chip leader to hanging on for third. The result is meaningless, though, and I don't post this for the bad beat factor.

I think this is a perfect example of how you shouldn't get married to your hand. The original pusher had pushed a couple of times, so maybe the BB thinks he can beat the short stack, but when I reraise he has to know his hand is no good. I hated his call in this case, as he was up against QQ and JJ.

Anyway, this points out that he needed at least QQ or AK, and probably KK or AA to call the reraise.

cya
Chris