55 in a huge pot against a Loosie, Mr. Passive, LAG & Unknown

nepenthe · #1 10-08-2004, 11:07 AM

MP1 is passive preflop and postflop. CO is a sort of LAGgy player who doesn't go nuts postflop but I have seen him frequently bet when checked on any street as a bluff (once made me fold a better hand at the turn and won with Ace high against a missed draw). BB is a bad calling station and chases gutshots, rr flush draws, one overcard, two overcards, etc. No read on the Button.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: nepenthe is UTG+1 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, nepenthe calls, MP1 (Mr. Passive) raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (LAG) calls, Button (Unknown) calls, SB calls, BB (Loosie) calls, UTG calls, nepenthe calls.

Mr. Passive raising preflop seems like a big hand.

Flop: (14 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, Loosie checks, UTG checks, nepenthe checks, Mr. Passive bets, LAG calls, Unknown raises, SB folds, Loosie calls, UTG folds, nepenthe 3-bets, Mr. Passive calls, LAG calls, Unknown calls, Loosie calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Loosie checks, nepenthe checks, Mr. Passive checks, LAG bets, Unknown calls, Loosie calls, nepenthe raises, Mr. Passive calls, LAG calls, Unknown calls, Loosie calls.

River: (24.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Loosie checks, nepenthe bets, Mr. Passive calls, LAG folds, Unknown folds, Loosie calls.

Final Pot: 27.50 BB
Main Pot: 27.50 BB, between Loosie, nepenthe and Mr. Passive.

Comments on all streets appreciated.

sluttysteve · #2 10-08-2004, 11:10 AM

Does your read on CO indicate that he's willing to bluff/semi-bluff against a field of five? Having the turn getting checked through would be mighty ugly.

bisonbison · #3 10-08-2004, 11:13 AM

I like everything but the turn check. I think it's too likely it gets checked to the Unknown who takes a free card.

It took me a while to figure out the flop action (cause so many people were involved), but I think it's real good.

InchoateHand · #4 10-08-2004, 11:22 AM

I think the check/three-bet on the flop was well executed.

I think the turn c/r veers towards FPS--if the K did help a hand, you might well get a raise there anyway allowing you to three-bet. Normally the trifecta is attempted HU---playing four opponents that way is certainly ballsy, but probably not always advisable.

nepenthe · #5 10-08-2004, 11:26 AM

Admittedly, I wasn't sure at the time if CO or Button would take a stab at the K here which is obviously a danger card. I was actually hoping Mr. Passive would take a stab at it again but no go, as my flop 3-bet seems to have frozen him in his tracks. Showing aggression on an early street with a monster then checking the subsequent street when a danger card falls is quickly becoming a play that I use frequently, and I may sometimes overdo it. Part of me probably wanted to get back to CO for making me fold a winner several hands back. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

chesspain · #6 10-08-2004, 11:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like everything but the turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree...most people who would've liked that flop won't like this black king. Since you have no idea if anyone will bet this, and gutshots are getting the correct odds to call anyone, you need to bet this turn.

MoreWineII · #7 10-08-2004, 12:35 PM

I agree with the above post. (Probably) nobody put you on a set until you check-raised the turn. In this case, I don't think you lost any bets since you trapped several people in for two bets, but I still prefer leading the turn in most cases.

crockett · #8 10-08-2004, 01:08 PM

Two weeks ago, I would have typed

"Bet the turn"

But I see you used what has really been working well for me lately. I have noticed that since moving up that if I lead the flop but then check the turn into multiple opponents someone always picks up the betting on the turn (when I say always I guessing somewhere around 19/20 times).

I like to have the following criteria to make this play....

1. I need to have two pair or better after the turn card falls.
2. I need 3+ opponents.
3. I need the turn card to be a blank or at least appear to be a blank for others.
4. I need to have a read on the table as a whole.
5. I need to be in early position and probably first to act.

I would not do it in your situation because you checked/3-bet the flop and I would fear everyone puts me on a set and it will be checked through. But I'll be! There it is working again.

I don't ever want to fall into the FPS mode so this is why I have a defined set of criteria but it really does seem to work often and the best part is that it makes the pots so big when your hand does hold up.

Am I just stupid for doing this?

elindauer · #9 10-08-2004, 01:48 PM

Masterfully played. The turn check is a bit tricky, since the most likely made hand is held by a passive player. With the LAG in there and the button raising though, getting tricky in that spot looks reasonable, especially since a late position bet will let you check-raise and perhaps knock out a gutshot.

Good luck.
Eric

elindauer · #10 10-08-2004, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Since ... gutshots are getting the correct odds to call anyone, you need to bet this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually a reason to check and take a chance. If you bet, gutshots call correctly. If you check, you may get to check-raise and save yourself the pot.

That said, I agree that betting is probably the best play, simply because you lose money on the missed calls when it gets checked through.

Good luck.
Eric