One of these days......

[Clarkmeister]

.....Andy Fox will see enough Yankee playoff comebacks that he will start to believe in "heart".

[andyfox]

I don't know about heart, but I do know that:

-the ball that bounced over the wall in the 8th inning saved Rivera's ass.

-Nathan simply ran out of gas.

-Matsui is a big-game player. He's obviously not your typical second year player.

-Jeter does an awful lot of things well that lead to wins.

-The Yankees may be paying the price for Rivera, Gordon and Quantrill pitching in so many games this year.

Helluvan exciting finish though. Sorry Twins fans.

[Clarkmeister]

That's why I said "one of these days" and not "today". [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[andyfox]

I don't know about heart, but I do know, in crunch time, they had Jeter, A-Rod, Sheffield, and Matsui up at bat. I'll take that over heart any time.

All of a sudden, the Angels have bases loaded, nobody out. Uh-oh. Erstad's lucky he still has a kneecap.

[Clarkmeister]

They also get key hits from guys with names like Boone and Posada. It's the whole team. It's a winning culture. It's why the Yankees win and the BoSox and Cubs constantly lose. It's heart.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Clark, you need to lump your Cards in there with the Yankees.

[andyfox]

Well, Boone also made the key out in the last World Series when he struck out with the bases loaded in game 4. And Posada hit the ball all of 12 feet to make the final out of game 6.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by heart. There are some guys who thrive under pressure and some guys who tense up. But a lot of that has to do with how they've been swinging the bat lately. Jeter's made a lot of big plays in his carrer, but in game 6 of last year's World Series he went hitless and made a key error giving Florida their second run.

Heart didn't make Nathan walk two guys on 8 pitches tonight. You've got to work pretty hard to walk Jeter.

[Clarkmeister]

Maybe it's easier to understand if you are not a Yankee fan. But I promise you that every playoff game the Yankees are losing, all Yankee haters have that sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach that tells them that it's just a matter of time before the Yanks get that tying or winning run. Leads are never safe, games are never "over" until they are actually over. There's a fear there. An unwillingness to ever enjoy a game because you know that they are just waiting to rip it away from you. And when it (seemingly) inevitably happens, you get mad at yourself for even allowing hope to sink into your brain. That's what it feels like to recognize and root against a team with heart.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's easier to understand if you are not a Yankee fan. But I promise you that every playoff game the Yankees are losing, all Yankee haters have that sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach that tells them that it's just a matter of time before the Yanks get that tying or winning run. Leads are never safe, games are never "over" until they are actually over. There's a fear there. An unwillingness to ever enjoy a game because you know that they are just waiting to rip it away from you. And when it (seemingly) inevitably happens, you get mad at yourself for even allowing hope to sink into your brain. That's what it feels like to recognize and root against a team with heart.

[/ QUOTE ]

POTD (in this part of the forum at least)

When Nathan walked Cairo to bring up Jeter, I knew it was over. Didn't even need to watch, you KNEW the Yankees were going to at least tie it. There isn't a team in any other sport where I get that feeling - of inevitability.

[andyfox]

I'm not so sure that's what I call heart though. It was the Twins who came back tonight in the 8th inning against Rivera. It was only a bounce over the wall that kept them from (most likely) winning the game.

I think sometimes people call "heart" what is actually intensity. Paul O'Neill is perhaps the best example. When I was a kid people used to say Mickey Mantle had heart playin in pain. And he did play in pain, but sometimes that pain was exacerbated by the pain of a hangover too. I'm not a big believer in the so-called intangibles, chemistry and heart and the like. Bill James and others who have studied clutch hitting have concluded there ain't no such thing.

I think the fear that you describe is fear of their talent: a successful manager, a team that has been in the playoffs ten consecutive years, a team that has been to the World Series six times in the last eight years and won four of them. (And lets not forget they lost one in the bottom of the 9th of game 7, although admittedly after two unbelievable 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth home runs in games 4 and 5.) The Yankees came from behind succesfully so often this year because they had poor starting pitching, hit 242 home runs, and had Rivera save 53 out of 56 opportunities. Not because they had heart. IMO.

On another note, just watching the Angels: Figgins is a disaster at second base.