When to cold call

[KJ o]

I have now played 100 SnG since buying PokerTracker and took a look at some specifics. One thing I noted was that in 5000+ hands, I cold called a total of six times, and three of these were all-ins with small stacks late and so probably shouldn't count (AA, 88, KJs).

That leaves 3 CC (TT, AKo, AKs once each). Cold calling too much is obviously a leak, but am I doing it too little? When is a good time to cold call?

[Sam T.]

This may be obvious, and I hate to say this, but it depends. How much do you have to cold-call? How is your stack? The raisers? Is he loose? Do you have position or are you in the blinds?

If we're talking about a silly little min-raise, I have position and I'm not short-stacked, I'll often call with a pocket pair. If I hit my set, I can let him bet into me, if he checks a ragged flop I can take down the pot with a decent bet, and if I'm behind I can fold.

If I have AK, I'll reraise rather than cold-call, because you need to find out whether the raiser has a made hand or is feeling frisky with AJ. Out of position or if I'm neither short nor tall-stacked, I'll cold call and have a look at the flop. It depends. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Faced with a 3BB raise (or greater) I'll cold call with AA and KK, probably on down to TT, depending the factors listed above. I really like cold-calling with AA/KK. His bet thins the field, and you are set up to take his stack. (Unless an A falls to your KK. Then you've got to make a decision.) With QQ-TT, I'm looking for a set or a completely ragged flop that I can take down with an aggressive flop bet.

[poboys]

I wish I had PT at my office so I can compare numbers. If by "cold calling" you mean calling any raise then I personally think you are playing too tight (or not getting any playable hands when others are raising). I probably play a little loser than most 2+2'ers (but much tighter than most SnG'ers) in that I focus on hands with good implied odds. For the first two rounds, I will take shots calling raises with a medium (or sometimes small) pocket pair, or a strong suited ace (AQs, for example). Generally speaking most early-exits are due to TPGK losing to a two-pair or better hand (well, that and people who bluff way too obviously).

This is an interresting question, and I'm going to click around PT tonight to find what my stats are.

Btw, how are your results? (ITM/ROI)?

[chill888]

[ QUOTE ]
I have now played 100 SnG since buying PokerTracker and took a look at some specifics. One thing I noted was that in 5000+ hands, I cold called a total of six times, and three of these were all-ins with small stacks late and so probably shouldn't count (AA, 88, KJs).

That leaves 3 CC (TT, AKo, AKs once each). Cold calling too much is obviously a leak, but am I doing it too little? When is a good time to cold call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure if i understand the definition of cold call but if you mean calling any raise and you have only done it 6 times in 5000! hands then you are FAR tighter than the resident 2+2 rock (me). You are playing far too tight.


Calling raises is generally bad form, but: Small raises early when you have 10 10 or JJ scream for calls. Ako versus a good player raise is a good call early on. etc. etc. etc.





gl

[KJ o]

The PT definition af a cold call is calling a raise when you have not previously put any money into the pot. Thus, you can't cold call from the blinds and only pre-flop, by definition. Accordingly you can't cold call unless it's at least 4-handed. However, an all-in call counts, even though I manually removed these (they can be analyzed with a lot more precision anyway).

I'm at work now and can't look at my numbers, but I will look to see how I play 77/88/99/TT - these seems to be obvious CC candidates against small raises.

What are everyone else's CC figure, according to the PT definition?

My ROI is a measly 20% after a Run From Hell(TM) where I, among other things, went out in consecutive tourneys with AJ against AJ (both all-in preflop). I'll stop here or the bad beat police will drag me away forever...

[KJ o]

Ok, this is what I found when looking at 77-JJ. I set PT filters to have 4-10 players, I'm not in a blind, I didn't put any money into the pot. Those should be potential CC candidates, I think. That was only ten hands, it turns out.

77 (1 hand):
Blinds 15/30, limper, minraiser, I fold. Obvious leak, I should have CC'ed here, right?

88 (3):
15/30, raise to 180 (all-in), 4 folds, I fold. Ok?
10/15, raise to 55, fold, CC, CC, fold. Good or bad spot to call?
10/15, fold, fold, raise to 75, 4 folds. I fold. Ok?

99 (4):
10/15, raise to 30, raise to 175, 4 folds. I fold. Ok?
15/30, call, call, fold. I fold. I have a vague remembrance of pressing the wrong button here. I wold obviously never lay down 99 unraised here.
10/15: I fold because I'm diconnected.
15/30: minraise, call. I fold. Leak.

JJ (2):
15/30, raise to 150. I fold. Ok?
25/50: I didn't respond in time.

Looking at that, I have 3 hands folded because I or my computer act up. I would have guessed I had 3 such hands in total for all my 5k+ hands. Sigh.

As for the rest, I have two clear leaks, but would love comments for the rest. I didn't bother running all these hands through the converter because it would be too long, but will of course do that for any particularily interesting hand.

[poboys]

[ QUOTE ]

10/15: I fold because I'm diconnected.


[/ QUOTE ]

Major leak!

What surprises me even more than your refusal to cold-call a small raise, is how few times people have raised in front of you! In the games that I play, raise all damn day. I'd guess that I have at least 2 opportunities per SnG to lay down a PP to a pre-flop raiser. Interresting.

[hurlyburly]

Without knowing stack sizes for all of those situations, it's hard to say if you are playing to tightly or not aggressively enough.

Since almost all of your situations came up when the blinds were low, I don't think you are playing too tightly. It looks to me like you aren't comfortable with your reads yet and don't want to make an early exit. I applaud your discipline and wish I could match it.

Some of those look like re-raise opportunities to me, but would be clear folds without a pp. I'd have definitely called that 180 all-in if that's a tourny chip shortstack.

The flipside is that only about 1.4 of those hands would have resulted in a flopped set, so how much did you really lose by folding them? I try to be consistent with my betting patterns with 55-JJ just to keep my implied odds in check. At the early levels, this usually means a 5-7% of stack raise (which is probably too loose) or a call of the same magnitude. That way I can win 1/7 without hurting myself too badly when I lose or am forced to fold. Using my own loose model, I think that you should play your 8's more, but everything else looks good.

[KJ o]

[ QUOTE ]
What surprises me even more than your refusal to cold-call a small raise, is how few times people have raised in front of you! In the games that I play, raise all damn day. I'd guess that I have at least 2 opportunities per SnG to lay down a PP to a pre-flop raiser. Interresting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is where PokerTracker really helps you out, by enabling you to look at the true stats. I share your feeling, but the games really are not that wild.

Does anyone else have a number of CC's per 1000 hands? I'd be very interested in comparing the figures.

[poboys]

I'll look mine up tonight.