Stuck to the Grind.

[bisonbison]

Because long-term poker players are a cynical, sarcastic bunch of hyper-competitive wierdos, we tend to come up with some pretty handy lingo. Someone, somewhere, first used the word "stuck" to mean "down some amount of money for this session/this month/this year," and it resonated with every other poker player ever because when you're stuck, you feel stuck - to the table, to the game, to the image of yourself as somehow wronged by variance; all of which endure until the deficit is closed or internally forgiven.

Someone else originated "the grind", that endless succession of hands and hours that constitutes the committed player's working effort. The grind creates a final result at the cost of some erosion of our selves, some grinding away.

Understand, casual players don't grind, they play when they feel like it. Losing players don't grind, they dump ballast. Only someone who self-identifies as a winning player grinds, accepting, as impartially as possible, the stresses and disappointments of confidence-besieging variance and soul-destroying boredom in the pursuit of the rewards of playing.

Those rewards are manifold. We make money when we win. We feel confident when we win. We feel validated in our efforts when we win. And even when we don't win, we get a certain amount of satisfaction in the challenge and the study and in the comradery of other committed players who are going through the same grind and trying to keep a level head about it.

"Stuck" is evocative, but the "the grind" is more apt for most of us 2+2ers, because we are trying to handle an emotionally draining pursuit in a rational, assertive way. What happens when the process of playing hand after hand "well", in a way that we expect to produce good results, turns out poorly? What happens when we lose to players whose mistakes we can see and whose play is manifestly worse than our own? For all but the best of us, it grinds on us and wears us down. If the positives of poker don't restore the wear and tear, or if poker impinges on the other things in our lives that make us happy, we end up burnt out by those things that make the games profitable.

Of course, it's never as simple as a ledger. Some of us can't forswear poker when it becomes exhausting (because the financial gain is too important). But I wanted to post this in the wake of a lot of non-professional players seeming to burn out in the grind (Festus saying goodbye to 2/4, nothumb moving back down to the micro-micros, and Chesspain's continual Oedipal struggles with 3/6).

We talk about success, but there are a lot of different definitions of success, and we tend to gloss over the costs our poker habit imposes. A bad mood after a losing session has a different valence for someone who's trying to pay the rent than it does for a college student who's playing for the challenge and the possibility of some extra spending cash.

So, with all this in mind, if poker is anything less than a full-time job for you, I'd just like to pose a couple of questions:

When you are exhausted or frustrated by your results, why are you unwilling to take a break?
When you are experiencing bad results or bankroll-damaging variance, why are you reluctant to move down?

If the answers to these questions depend on your sense of pride and you've accepted that variance is a real thing that happens to winning players: how do you expect to deal with your first substantial losing streak? Because your pride will be damaged, and your rewards rescinded, and then you're going to be playing for much more distant rewards, and if you don't have a why, it's going to be hard.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

you write good.

[ErrantNight]

When you are exhausted or frustrated by your results, why are you unwilling to take a break?

Because I'm a stubborn bastard. When bad breaks come, or I make a few bad plays, I convince myself that they were just bad breaks, or that I can correct those bad plays... if I'm at a table of fish this is real easy to do because I see an easy opportunity to turn it around. The more rocks there are, the harder this is, but the more my stubbornness kicks in (I can show them! or, I'll just win back a LITTLE and THEN jump tables!)

When you are experiencing bad results or bankroll-damaging variance, why are you reluctant to move down?

Because I keep telling myself I can turn it back around FASTER at the "higher" limits (which for me, is just 2/4, which seems softer and easier to beat for the most part than 1/2 was... although I will mix in a 1/2 game every now and then). But I'm consistently removing bankroll so every hit on a day at 2/4 seems more stressful and leads to me playing more conservatively until I win back most of my losses (probably limiting my win rate significantly)

If the answers to these questions depend on your sense of pride and you've accepted that variance is a real thing that happens to winning players: how do you expect to deal with your first substantial losing streak? Because your pride will be damaged, and your rewards rescinded, and then you're going to be playing for much more distant rewards, and if you don't have a why, it's going to be hard.

Because I keep telling myself I'm a good player who's getting better and is a better player than I was a few months ago when I thought I was a good player.

I'm probably not a particularly good player (my tendencies to: make iffy calls on close odds situations, to go on tilt for short periods of time, and to not give up on made hands I'm almost positive are 2nd best all work against me), but I'm better than a lot out there, and I've proven to myself that over the long haul I can win... because I'm playing only with profit while maintaining a part time job and going to school full time... because I have a defined goal of what I'd like to win and when I hit it I'll cash out and everything after that is just cake (and yes, I do this every few months... but hopefully a few months from now I'm better than I am today)

I take losing poorly... I get frustrated and occasionally act immaturely (but I'm improving)... and I'm sure this contributes to lowering my win rate... but I keep things in perspective, and win my back hits the wall (or my bankroll gets low) I buckle down and pick myself back up...

Now what happens when I buckle down and STILL bust out on my ass?

Ah well, deal with that road when I come to it.

[x2ski]

Holy crud dude... that is some goot writing.

[cold_cash]

This is good (and timely) stuff.

I have to admit, I was a little worried about you when I saw you referring to yourself in the third person over in the micro-forum, but I can tell from this post that you still possess many of your faculties. Nicely done.

[nepenthe]

Here's my take for some of the players here who are currently having a hard time.

I correctly blame myself for my undisciplined rampage when I have a pretty bad losing session. For me, it's that simple. It has happened precisely three or four times in my rather short career as a serious poker player. If you're on a losing streak no matter how prolonged, question yourself first and foremost because chances are better than even money that you have some leaks, and the sooner you accept this probability the sooner you're going to get rid of it. Either you're not playing as well as you think you are to begin with, in which case the problem is fundamental, or you did not play as well as you could have in a particular session / series of sessions, in which case the problem is mental. Don't go crying to variance each time you lose - although variance is part of the problem, it can also be part of the denial. Be prepared to accept full responsibility, critique yourself objectively without mercy or unwarranted acrimony, and never stop learning.

[Michael Davis]

Why don't you find an outlet for writing that pays so you can move up and not worry about paying the auto insurance?

I don't want to hijack your thread, but there is the potential for a very good poker magazine just by using very good "uknown" posters from 2+2.

-Michael

[bisonbison]

I have to admit, I was a little worried about you when I saw you referring to yourself in the third person over in the micro-forum, but I can tell from this post that you still possess many of your faculties. Nicely done.

Anyone who has met me in person knows that I crave and despise the wierd fame that this forum has given me. I'm always the same self-obsessed, cynical [censored] that I've been for the last X months here.

[edthayer]

I fit into the "college student playing for the challenge and extra spending cash" category.

I've just moved up to 2/4, and I haven't had a big losing session yet at this level. I know that when I do experience a losing session, I get tired of the game. I curse at the computer, and I get upset, and if I lose badly enough, I quit for a day or so, browse the forums here, read a little SSHE, and then I'm back the next day.

I don't think pride has anything to do with it. But I do feel a great sense of confidence when I when. When I win, it's a matter of pride, when I lose, I justify it by saying I'll win next time around.

[brassnuts]

What a great post! You really were an English major weren't you?

[ QUOTE ]
When you are exhausted or frustrated by your results, why are you unwilling to take a break?

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel very unwilling to take a break when I'm stuck on a table because I have this overwhelming urge to get unstuck. Plain and simple. I do have enough sense, though, to realize when I'm actually being outplayed (I hope). This makes me a bit more willing to take a break and come back later. But, most of the time, I feel it's just the opposite. Usually, I'm running bad on a table because I keep having AK cracked by A7 or something. I feel like I just need a couple of my better hands to hold up.

One other thing... do you think the term 'grind' is poker specific or is it a more general term to describe any job?