pocket pairs

a question for you no-limiters.


you've got QQ, KK, or AA and in my game, people will call all-ins [up to about 20 bucks] [we buy in starting at 20 but it grows after that]

with hands like AQ off, suited, even KQsuited and definitely AKsuited.


Would you take out their implied odds and just push ur stack all in with KK and AA? what about QQ, would u bet a little more than the current pot and wait to see what the flop brings?


I read a post of Natedogg's a while back that with pocket pairs, you don't want to have any chips in front of you left when the flop comes and you have a high pocket pair [i'm assuming so this takes out their implied odds]


[keep in mind this is a college, no limit game and the players aren't that great]


any starting guidelines would help. thanks.

n/m

My personal raising strategy is quite simple. All my raises are roughly the same amount. It doesn't matter if I have AA or 72o. If your raises vary based on your cards good players will notice and you will be in trouble.


Now the amount of my raise is based on the opponents and I will adjust based on the number of limpers. In tourneys I make a pot sized raise. If the blinds are 100-200 I would make it 700 to go. In ultimate .10-.25 NL my standard raise is 1.50 or 1.75.


Now what you do if it has been previously raised or if you get reraised is completely based on your cards.


Ken Poklitar

You have to vary your raise size based on position, the amount of money already in the pot, and who you are playing against. The later you are the more money in the bigger you raise. However, you should rarely go allin preflop for a massive initial raise in cash games.


Natedogg is right about trying to get allin preflop, but this is not so easily done in most cases. Really you want to save big raises for your reraises. Get all your money in when a steal looks more likely or when someone has already shown good strenght. Be careful doing this with QQ though, as it is so easily run down.


However, i may be very wrong, and would like to hear other opinions.

I disagree that you have to vary your raise sized based on position except to account for limpers which is in effect the amount of money in the pot. If there is 1 limper in the pot my raise would be the same if I was UTG+1 or on the button.


And yeah I want to get all my money in the pot when I have big pairs but I don't want to telegraph my hand by my initial raise. If someone else has initially raised or if I get re-raised, I will make a substantial re-raise with big pairs.


The who you are playing against as you state is quite important. In ultimate that is why my initial raises are 6xBB or 7xBB. If I only did a pot sized raise in Ultimate which would be a .75 bet I might get 7 or 8 callers where I would like my raises to cut the field to 2 or less opponents.


Ken Poklitar

I agree with Ken about the size of the raises, they should be based on your enemies and not on your position. Of course, you should never say never, but a good rule of thumb is to be consistent on the amount you raise, whether you raise for value or if you are making a play.


Now the thing that's interesting in the play of a vast majority of players, is that they will call raises with the wrong cards. Bad players will fold 87 and call with KQ when it's exactly the opposite that they should be doing. Providing the stacks are deep enough so that they have good implied odds and that you'll get payed enough if you flop well. There's nothing wrong with calling 2$ on the button with 9-7s if you have 40$ left even if the opponent showed you his aces. What you don't want to do is call with KQ, flop top pair and get in trouble. This is a major nono in NL HE.


So to answer your question, let them come in with AQ when you have AK, or with other trouble hands. That's what you want. Make your standard raise, one that will usually leave you heads-up or in a three-way pot and hope for the best. What you want to do in NL is to put your money in the pot as a favorite. If you can manage to move in preflop with KK or AA, your going to make a bundle at the game if you can avoid other costly mistakes. So do your best to get the most $$ in preflop, when you are in command, and when the best holding is in your hands. If they call with KQ and outflop you, them's the brakes. You still made a good +EV play.


What Natedogg said is quite right, if you can't get all your cash in preflop you'd like to have a pot size bet left to bet on the flop. Things can get complicated if you make that pot size bet on the flop and get called, if you still have a large stack in front of you.


Good luck,


Nicolas Fradet (The Prince)

The reason i said position allows you to make a bigger bet is twofold.


Firstly the increased pot size due to limpers makes for a larger bet being correct.


Secondly if I am in late postion i occasionally put in a overbet with 54s 67s and the like as an attempt to pick up the dead money. Also i obviously make the same bet with Aces or Kings.


Another factor is the limp reraise. You always raise at least the pot with Aces or Kings in late position (i prefer to go for about 1.5 to 2 times the pot in most cases, this cuts down implied odds, and makes it easier to get allin if played back at. But in early poistion i often limp reraise if i know there are aggressive players in the game, particularly if they are the sort to call an allin reraise with weak hands. I have had an $38 allin called at UB by the raiser when i reraised allin with KK and he had 28s.


So this is why i feel that position is a major factor in determining the bet size.

paired aces, kings, and queens have sort of been lumped together heren and that's OK


but in regards to those three, the amount I want to bet before the flop is inverse relation to the strength of the pair

I would not change the bet amount between AA KK and QQ, except for a reraise situation. I often just call with QQ, and tend to back AA and KK (only wrong with the Kings once so far) with my whole stack if i can get it allin preflop.

Sure the amount you want to bet might be different but if you bet in relation to your cards good players will notice the pattern.


Ken Poklitar