Playing Big Flop Against Tight Player

RED_RAIN · #1 10-04-2004, 06:56 PM

{{Hands: 118 Total $: $53
SF: 14 VP$IP: 12 PFR: 4.2
WSD: 35 W$SD: 67 W$SD-BR: 50
FSB: 0 FBB: 67 AGG: 1.22
STEAL: 0 CR: 0.00 Fold-RB: 0
PFR w/: TT(1) JJ(1) AKo(1)}}

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button folds.

Is this really the best play or should I wait till turn to check/raise or do what? I guess I wanted to see how strong his hand was?

TripleH68 · #2 10-04-2004, 07:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button folds.

Is this really the best play or should I wait till turn to check/raise or do what? I guess I wanted to see how strong his hand was?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot is so small I think the c-r on the flop is good. Villain will surely call down if he has an ace. If no ace(KK,QQ) he may skip the turn bet anyway and you give him a free draw at trips.

Brian · #3 10-04-2004, 07:07 PM

Hi Red,

Is this player just tight pre-Flop, or is he tight post-Flop as well? In other words, if he has KK-JJ, and you check-call the Flop, will he bet them again if you check the Turn? If so, then that is probably your best approach. Check-call the Flop, check-call the Turn, and then bet the River. You have flopped a monster, but you are probably not going to get much action out of a tight player unless you are beat no matter what you do. So the best approach is generally to not scare him off.

If, on the other hand, he is tight-passive, and will check the Turn with KK-JJ if you check-call the Flop, then theres not really much you can do except make sure you bluff him in the future. I would probably check-call the Flop versus that type of player, then lead the Turn and River and hope he gets suspicious and calls down.

I ran into this problem several times while playing at the Canterbury. There were a few players who were tight/aggressive pre-Flop, but tight/passive post-Flop, and were very willing to check down marginal hands. Here are two examples:

I have AK in MP and open-raise. Tight middle 30's guy 3-bets, everyone folds and I call. The Flop is QTx, I check, he bets, I call. The Turn is an Ace, I check and he checks. The River is a brick, I bet and he mucks JJ face-up. Of course, depending on his read on me, he may have actually played his hand perfectly. But, I made a mental note of this and looked for spots to bluff him in the future. I'll open-raise a lot of hands from MP and it would be quite a coup to have folded his JJ with JTs or 99 there, both hands with which I would have check-called the Flop.

Heres another one, and this guy definitely is a weak-tightie (whereas my last opponent may have been a decent player). Limper UTG, guy raises in MP, I 3-bet from the SB with AQs. UTG folds and MP 4-bets. I call. The Flop is Ace-rag-rag, I check, he bets, I call. The Turn is another rag, I check and he checks. River is a Queen, I bet, he calls and shows KK. Against these types of people, it's very hard to extract bets post-Flop, so it's best to not scare them off and try to do something suspicious that will make them call down. That was also the 2nd hand I had played at the table, so his not betting the Turn was definitely a sign of weak-tightness.

-Brian

J.R. · #4 10-04-2004, 07:10 PM

Give him rope, way ahead or way behind, especially in light of the Fold to a river bet = 0. If he checks the turn, he is likely to call a river bet and giving a free card to a 2 outer who will pay off unimproved isn't a disaster. If he has AK or AQ he will bet the turn.

As an aside, what value does "Total $: $53" serve in exporting stats, when you know it takes many tens of thousands of hands to approach an accurate number?

Also, what is this "W$SD-BR: 50" and what extra does it bring in light of "W$SD: 67" and what does "SF: 14" bring in light of "VP$IP: 12", we know people get free looks in the BB and when posting in LP?

RED_RAIN · #5 10-04-2004, 07:43 PM

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what value does "Total $: $53" serve in exporting stats, when you know it takes many tens of thousands of hands to approach an accurate number?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just like to know...not a great stat.

[ QUOTE ]
what is this "W$SD-BR: 50" and what extra does it bring in light of "W$SD: 67

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Won showdown when bet or raise. If they check/call check/call then bet river, they usually have at min top pair if this is high. If not, less worries.

[ QUOTE ]
what does "SF: 14" bring in light of "VP$IP: 12", we know people get free looks in the BB and when posting in LP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe overkill and doesn't mean much, but meh I've had it for a long time.