I know this is + Chip EV, but it's still a bad play, right?

[ilya]

***** Hand History for Game 1017446816 *****
100/200 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 6256568) - Sun Oct 03 16:39:29 EDT 2004
Table Table 11565 (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: acdrexel (770)
Seat 2: mrzarembsky (1320)
Seat 4: jmart150 (1520)
Seat 7: bensnaps (585)
Seat 8: golfer70 (1560)
Seat 9: beppoyapp (1800)
Seat 10: GerpinoGmblr (445)
mrzarembsky posts small blind (50)
jmart150 posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mrzarembsky [ Jd, Ah ]
bensnaps folds.
golfer70 folds.
beppoyapp folds.
GerpinoGmblr folds.
acdrexel folds.
mrzarembsky raises (1270) to 1320
mrzarembsky is all-In.

[SmileyEH]

bad play...your stack is too big.

-SmileyEH

[CrisBrown]

Hi ilya,

I agree with Smiley. Pushing here is overplaying your hand because you still have 18xBB in your stack. This is what David Sklansky refers to as "turning a good hand into 72o." That is, if the BB is a good player, he won't call this all-in bet with a hand that AJ will like. So he'll fold all of his marginal hands (which he'd have done even if you made this raise with 72o), and only call with the hands that beat you. Thus, you've "turned AJo into 72o."

A raise to T300 would be fine. If he comes back over the top, you can make a read and decide whether you still like AJo. If not, you muck and you still have a decent stack (15xBB).

Cris

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi ilya,

I agree with Smiley. Pushing here is overplaying your hand because you still have 18xBB in your stack. This is what David Sklansky refers to as "turning a good hand into 72o." That is, if the BB is a good player, he won't call this all-in bet with a hand that AJ will like. So he'll fold all of his marginal hands (which he'd have done even if you made this raise with 72o), and only call with the hands that beat you. Thus, you've "turned AJo into 72o."

A raise to T300 would be fine. If he comes back over the top, you can make a read and decide whether you still like AJo. If not, you muck and you still have a decent stack (15xBB).

Cris

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Cris,
thanks for your comments (you too Smiley!). I think you are both right...just one thing though, I had not 18xBB but 13xBB. I still think raising to 300 would have been the right play though.
I just got fixated on the fact that the play was +CEV and dismissed the fact that the risk/reward ratio wasn't right.

[CrisBrown]

Hi ilya,

Sorry for the misread on stack size, but thanks for the kind words and I'm glad our comments helped you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Good luck!

Cris

[Marcotte]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi ilya,

This is what David Sklansky refers to as "turning a good hand into 72o." That is, if the BB is a good player, he won't call this all-in bet with a hand that AJ will like. So he'll fold all of his marginal hands (which he'd have done even if you made this raise with 72o), and only call with the hands that beat you. Thus, you've "turned AJo into 72o."
Cris

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have to check my book when I get home, but I thought "turning a good hand into 72o" referred to betting or raising a semi-strong hand (I think he used AQ and 99 as his examples) in a position where a large reraise will force you to fold.

But that's neither here nor there. I agree with the advice given, although I may raise only 2.5bb if I want to entice a call. Like Cris said, by raising all in you are only gonna get called when you are dominated or at best in a coin-flip race.

[codewarrior]

I like a limp here myself... If you've done a lot of pf raising, your limp will scare more people than a raise would (especially the players that will matter later on).

[EDIT: I see you were SB - which disguises the strength of your hand and makes it easy to release if you limp here, IMO.]

Also, do a search for the hand converter (it's in the SnG FAQ I think, also?) - it makes these things easier to read.