#1
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Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=3518
Read and then discuss. It has some interesting views about the record and Ichiro's game. |
#2
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
prety interesting, rather intuitive as well. Granted, the lack of infield singles is pretty impressive.
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#3
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
I just can't even imagine what it must be like to have to play infield against that guy. It must be a big headache when someone is on base when he comes up.
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#4
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
i wish you hadn't posted that link... now i'm annoyed as hell... there is no question in my mind that what ichiro is accomplishing this season is WAY MORE IMPRESSIVE than mcgwire and bonds beating the single-season home-run record.
bonds broke a record that was several years old. mcgwire broke a record set in '61. it's been more than 80 years since sisler set the record and more than 70 years since anyone has gotten even CLOSE (over 250 safeties) to downplay ichiro's achievement is just being negative for the sake of being negative. mike |
#5
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
but there are about 5-10 people playing that potentially have the skill set to do what ichiro is doing and get reasonably close to the hits record. Guys like Tyner as a farfetched example that had a lot of speed and little else could potentially get 200+ hits if they worked at it.
Vlad is about the only player that would be capable of nearing Bonds's level of production and I'm not sure that's possible. |
#6
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
hey I agree with you, but those guys on BP are big time Moneyball players. They're definitely the "new school". One thing that I found interesting though:
[ QUOTE ] So your argument then is that Ichiro is intentionally making contact with the ball trying to make singles and not...doubles? This non-optimal strategy, if it exists, has been awfully productive for him and it's not as if hitting singles hurts the team. Whether there's a tradeoff between extra-base hits and singles is debatable, but it's entirely possible concentrating on hitting singles is the better of these strategies, and until you can come up with a specific argument like "Ichiro is concentrating on singles, increasing his hit rate by 5% at the expense of 20% fewer 2B and 10% fewer HRs, a net loss of 40 bases since he adopted this strategy" all you're doing is guessing. [/ QUOTE ] It's almost like Ichiro is using his singles as simply just another away to get on base. Some people may say he doesn't walk enough, but if he is getting on base, so what? If the pitchers aren't going to give him good pitches, then he needs to learn how to get on by hitting the corner strikes for infield singles and slap hits. I mean lets be honest, pitchers are not going to walk him. There not even going to pitch around him per-se, they simply are just going to give bad pitches to hit. Earlier in the year Melvin flirted with the idea of Ichiro hitting 3rd in the order, and that now seems to be so stupid. Ichiro needs to be the leadoff hitter because his main job and his best function is simply get on base anyway possible, and for Ichiro that means a lot of singles, especially infield ones which exploit his speed and quickness. |
#7
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
you've got to be joking... there are 5-10 guys who have the skill set to get close to the hits record in the majors right now?!? are u on crack?!?!? jesus christ
there hasn't been 5-10 players in the last Thirty YEARS that have had any shot at 250+ hits... here are the ones i would put in that category: rod carew... wade boggs... tony gwynn... umm thats about it on the other hand, what about guys who can hit a bunch of homers? yeah they are a real rare breed... mike |
#8
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
[ QUOTE ]
but there are about 5-10 people playing that potentially have the skill set to do what ichiro is doing [/ QUOTE ] Not really Ichiro is one of the few players in the league who succeeds at putting the bale in play which results in a base hit(a non HR hit). Take a look at this numbers. Leaders: Balls in Play Percentage (BIP%) Juan Pierre 87.4% Endy Chavez 85.6% A.J. Pierzynski 83.7% Tike Redman 83.6% Alex Cintron 83.5% David Eckstein 83.4% Cesar Izturis 83.4% Aaron Miles 83.3% Ichiro 83.1% Sean Burroughs 83.0% Trailers: Balls in Play Percentage (BIP%) Barry Bonds 40.4% Adam Dunn 41.0% Jim Edmonds 44.3% Jim Thome 45.3% Jason Bay 49.9% Sammy Sosa 50.2% Pat Burrell 51.0% Carlos Pena 51.6% Carlos Delgado 51.9% Mike Cameron 51.9% Leaders: Batting Average on Balls in Play (BABIP) Jim Edmonds .418 Ivan Rodriguez .398 Ichiro .397 Jason Varitek .396 Jason Bay .395 Melvin Mora .394 Erubiel Durazo .392 Lyle Overbay .384 Travis Hafner .379 J.D. Drew .378 Barry Bonds .377 Trailers: Batting Average on Balls in Play (BABIP) Tony Batista .241 Joe Crede .253 Jose Valentin .255 Rafael Palmeiro .264 Jose Cruz .265 Jay Payton .266 Doug Mientkiewicz .269 Juan Encarnacion .269 Alex Gonzalez .271 Alex Cintron .271 source Ichiro has speed, but he also is a very good contact hitter. |
#9
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
[ QUOTE ]
there hasn't been 5-10 players in the last Thirty YEARS that have had any shot at 250+ hits... here are the ones i would put in that category: rod carew... wade boggs... tony gwynn... umm thats about it [/ QUOTE ] The most hits Gwynn ever had was 220 in a season. Here's one name you wouldn't have guessed.... Darren Erstad, he had 240 in 2000. |
#10
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Re: Ichiro Roundtable on BP.
i didnt put erstad in that same company because to me he was basically a one-season wonder... when i was following baseball in the mid-80's i actually thought boggs was going to break that record except for his inability to get any infield hits... but he probably had the best bat control i've seen in my lifetime (i'm 33)... him or keith hernandez
i guess mattingly also had a shot... i know he had close to 240 in 86 mike |
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