Weak Play/Fold?

rickw · #1 09-29-2004, 04:21 AM

This was one of the first 5 hands of the tourney. No reads other than UTG and UTG+1 were pretty aggressive.

Looking back, this seems like weak play to me. I am new and am always a little nervous to overplay good (but not great) hands early in a tourney. Of course I often end up fighting to place on the bubble. (I post the results for your amusement.)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed)

Hero (t730)
UTG (t695)
UTG+1 (t1785)
MP1 (t1485)
MP2 (t1565)
CO (t760)
Button (t310)
SB (t670)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t30, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero raises to t60, UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, SB calls t30.

Should I have raised [more] pre-flop?

Flop: (t300) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets t30, MP2 calls t30, SB folds, Hero calls t30, UTG raises to t60, UTG+1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, Hero calls t30.

Again, I guess I should have been a little more aggressive here, but I hate to commit too much early on in these tourneys when some maniac may just go all in . . .

Turn: (t540) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets t30, UTG raises to t575 (All-In), UTG+1 calls t575, MP2 folds, Hero folds.

Looking back the pot was pretty big, but being out of position, I was nervous. If I had bet more, do I prevent the reraise? Noone had reraised preflop, so should I have pushed at this point? I was thinking that UTG hit a straight.

River: (t1720) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1720

Results in white below: 
UTG has Jd 3d (two pair, jacks and nines).
UTG+1 has Kd 7d (two pair, kings and nines).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t1720. 

Any and all thoughts appreciated.

rjb03 · #2 09-29-2004, 07:56 AM

I wouldn't raise here from the BB with KQs, and I definitely wouldn't minraise. You have no position and it's not that great a hand anyways at a full table. It would also make the hand easier to get away from when the flop is as bad as the one you got. Don't get too aggressive on the flop...you're still in the early hands of the tourney and may get called with worse hands than you would later on by the guys who have no problem calling all ins with no kicker, but these hands are still beating you. Also, a 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] falling here would not be so great as it would complete a diamond flush draw if there is one out there.

michaliv · #3 09-29-2004, 10:20 AM

I think that it is too early in the tournament to raise w/ KQ from the BB. If you do raise you must raise to at least 4xBB here. There are too many limpers in for anyone to fold to a min raise. The flop missed you, but you still called a bet. I think that even calling a min bet here is incorrect (depending on the betting habits of UTG and UTG+1). Some people min bet with a very strong hand. With the min raise there is a good chance you are in trouble. There is no need to draw to this hand early in a tourney (especially on a dwindling stack). If your stack was a little bigger, then maybe you could chase after this hand on the flop (if you have a very good read on your opponents), but you need to conserve your chips for now. I think the lay down on the turn was a good laydown with an all in and a call. Most of the time you will be beat here.

chill888 · #4 09-29-2004, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This was one of the first 5 hands of the tourney. No reads other than UTG and UTG+1 were pretty aggressive.

Looking back, this seems like weak play to me. I am new and am always a little nervous to overplay good (but not great) hands early in a tourney. Of course I often end up fighting to place on the bubble. (I post the results for your amusement.)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed)

Hero (t730)
UTG (t695)
UTG+1 (t1785)
MP1 (t1485)
MP2 (t1565)
CO (t760)
Button (t310)
SB (t670)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t30, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero raises to t60, UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, SB calls t30.

Should I have raised [more] pre-flop?

Flop: (t300) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets t30, MP2 calls t30, SB folds, Hero calls t30, UTG raises to t60, UTG+1 calls t30, MP2 calls t30, Hero calls t30.

Again, I guess I should have been a little more aggressive here, but I hate to commit too much early on in these tourneys when some maniac may just go all in . . .

Turn: (t540) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets t30, UTG raises to t575 (All-In), UTG+1 calls t575, MP2 folds, Hero folds.

Looking back the pot was pretty big, but being out of position, I was nervous. If I had bet more, do I prevent the reraise? Noone had reraised preflop, so should I have pushed at this point? I was thinking that UTG hit a straight.

River: (t1720) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1720

Results in white below: 
UTG has Jd 3d (two pair, jacks and nines).
UTG+1 has Kd 7d (two pair, kings and nines).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t1720. 

Any and all thoughts appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limp or fold preflop. A small raise is just asking for trouble.

You missed the flop. Hoping/calling for a gutshot on too many hands is just blowing valuable chips. I "might" call a tiny bet if I was closing the betting or almost certain not to be raised.

On th turn: I don't know. the King is probably an awful card for you as it makes you think you have a chance. You may be in 1st but with a board like that and people betting big? Yikes.

As I say often: KQs and AJ are way prettier than good.

gl

rickw · #5 09-29-2004, 11:13 AM

Thanks for the very valuable input everyone.