What do you do when you can never open-raise?

[Grisgra]

Was just in a $20 game where EVERYONE was seeing a damn flop it seemed -- I never got a real hand and was down to 700 chips by the time the blinds hit 50/100. Problem was that I never even saw paint when I was UTG, and even in MP there were always people limping in to see a flop, so no chance to open-raise with a half-decent hand.

By the 50/100 point there were still 7 people in, and I was about the short-stack. I eventually went in with K7o after one caller, he flipped over AJ and won it.

Just got desperate I guess -- one more orbit and a raise all-in would mean nothing.

So am I just out of luck in those situations?

Whole game I got one decent hand, cowboys, stole 45 worth of blinds, but that's it.

[ChrisV]

You lose, basically. Start running steals in late position with random stuff when you hit about the 5-6 BB mark.

This is why the higher buyin tournaments on Party with 1000 chips per player are a better deal.

[hurlyburly]

Never give up. If everyone is limping in and you limp in with worthy hands, you'll win more BB when you hit. Nofoldemholdem is fine, just work on being a better post-flop player. You can also set the mood and sometimes swing a loose-passive into a tight game (which is great for you if the fish can't play tight well). Patience is important too. with blinds that low, you SHOULD be limping with more hands and looking to catch, sounds like you are getting 6-1 small bets on all your starting hands, which can't be bad when you hit and start making real bets.

This might not work so well at Party, since the blinds go up so fast. I made the switch to pokerstars for the T1500 and 10 minute levels. It's easier to let go when you don't need to win a pot every 20 hands. The players are far more skilled there, however.

I'm guessing that you pushed in UTG with those kings?

[eastbay]

I also get frustrated by a game where I never get to open.

I think what you have to do is move in over a limper or two earlier than you would normally consider risking it all, and with a lesser hand if necessary. If there's tons of limping and min-raising, the standards must be lower, so it may still be ok to move in with something like KQo.

This also often helps slow down the limp-fest, which can bring you back to your open-raising game.

eastbay

[ChrisV]

Why on earth would he push UTG with kings?

Limping in to try and hit flops is a concept that is overrated in a tournament where you start with 800 chips. It's something you can do (a) with small pairs or (b) in late position after limpers. These situations don't come up all that often.

Some tournaments just weren't meant to be. Just because in one tournament you got blinded down and eventually busted out going allin with a pretty average hand, it doesn't mean you did anything wrong. It's only if that happens to you lots that you're probably not playing well.

[CrisBrown]

Hi Grisgra,

What do you do when you can't open a pot? Play position. If everyone is limping in, and if you play well post-flop, then position gives you better implied odds and reduces your effective odds. Obviously, you bluff and semi-bluff less. You also bet more aggressively for value, because your opponents are on weaker hands, and also to narrow the field and punish the out-of-position chasers.

Obviously, you can't rescue every SNG. If you catch nothing but J3o at a table where you can't steal, you're going to lose. There's always another SNG.

Cris

[Grisgra]

Thanks for the advice, guys. Next game made up for it -- played well AND got great cards, always a good combination, and finished 1st.

Just have to write some of them off I suppose -- when you don't get cards, you don't get cards. Just frustrating seeing a lot of people play any two early on and build up a stack of 2000-3000 really early while I'm folding my AQo in the BB to a min raise (when there are a bunch of other callers).

Gee, that sounded kind of stupid.

[ChrisV]

You're folding your what? lol

That sounds way too tight. I don't fold AQ to minimum raises, in the big blind or otherwise.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
while I'm folding my AQo in the BB to a min raise (when there are a bunch of other callers).

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? This is the hand you should have moved in with in a limpfest table.

[cowpie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while I'm folding my AQo in the BB to a min raise (when there are a bunch of other callers).

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? This is the hand you should have moved in with in a limpfest table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with him. If it's not AA vs AK preflop and I have the aces, I'm folding. I'm too good a player to go all in with worse odds. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]