Does Political Spin Really Work?

[Utah]

I constantly find myself reading election articles in the paper and saying, "did that jackass really say that when we know the truth to be different?"

It got me to thinking, "does this spin really help? Are people really to stupid to see through what they are saying?" I am sure the politicians would tell you that it works, but I wonder.

I remember when Jesse Ventura ran for governor. He had no experience and he just isnt that bright. However, he was so damn refreshing to here and I believe he won the election just be speaking openly and honestly. I wonder what would happen if a presidential candidate spoke openly and honestly . Would it help or would it be suicide?

[Kopefire]

"open and honest" is, frankly, a matter of perspective.

I'm not saying that much of the spin doesn't manage to cross the line into outright fabrication (on both sides), but it's hardly the case that it's always the case that what they are saying is completely false.

A good example is found in nearly any debate about taxes.

A democrat will complain about the tax breaks all going to the rich -- never minding the fact that there's about 44% of the population that doesn't pay any taxes at all (or pay negative taxes) and they're defining "rich" as any household with two people working decent mid-level management type positions, so basically all college educated middle aged couples.

The republicans will enter the debate and talk about how their tax plan is helping the middle class .. ignoring the fact that that is true only for about the upper-third of the middle class, and coporations are really helped out much more and small business guys are totally screwed.

Neither party is lying . . .but they aren't spending the time to nuance their statements either.

As to if it would work in a national election .. .no. Jesse won because he was able to exploit name recognition and all the stupid 18 and 19 year olds thought it would be fun to vote for him.

In a national election, someone speaking as unintelligently on the issues as Jesse regularly did would be killed. There's too many cameras, and too many schooled reporters who would make a mockery of such a candidate.

[wacki]

At first, I would say yes political spin works. I know too many morons that believe so much crap. I think political spin works, because people are more inclined to believe what they want to hear, and not believe what they don't want to hear.

But you have a good point with Ventura.

[Kopefire]

I don't think there's much to the Ventura poitn at all.

Jesse had a few things going for him -- lots of young voters, but mostly he was everyone's second choice in a three-way race against 2 reallly mediocre candidates.

Both party candidates were running a "well it's my turn so elect me" campaign, and had a lot of dissatisfaction wtihin their party. So a good percentage of voters choose Ventura as a "protest" vote.

I think the person most surprised at Ventura's election was Ventura.

[adios]

A perfect example if the Day in the Life of Joe Republican thread. It may be marginally effective in garnering voters sitting on the fence but it's effective in maintaing a cadidates political base.

[adios]

Excellnet post.

I don't want to hijack this thread with a discussion about taxes but [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

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A democrat will complain about the tax breaks all going to the rich -- never minding the fact that there's about 44% of the population that doesn't pay any taxes at all (or pay negative taxes) and they're defining "rich" as any household with two people working decent mid-level management type positions, so basically all college educated middle aged couples.

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I agree with you totally. You can't give a tax break to someone who pays zero in taxes (well I guess a negative income tax could be expanded). Andy may come in and state that in reality the U.S. has a flat tax when you take into account SS contributions as well as other taxes. But I've pointed out that the Earned Income Credit in many, many cases compensates for SS contributions (besides it's supposed to be for retirement which people are supposed to get back) and that state tax systems are overwhelmingly progressive.

[wacki]

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I don't think there's much to the Ventura poitn at all.


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I do, everyone I talked to during his campaign said it was a neat experience to hear him talk. And the media seemed to be in love with him. And even more in love with his wife.

[Gamblor]

What does Europe think every time Yasser Arafat, archterrorist and one of the early members of the Muslim Brotherhood (a 20th century organization devoted to imposing Islamic rule over all of Asia and a forerunner to Al Qaeda), gets up and asks for peace and cohabitation with Jews?

[Cyrus]

"Does Political Spin Really Work? Does this spin really help? Are people really too stupid to see through what [the politicians] are saying?"

No, spin doesn't work because the average person in America is more smart and educated than the average person in all other western democracies. Americans, overall, make a point to learn about what goes on in the world and are not focused only on national issues - hence their deep understanding of everything from Middle East politics to the national pastime of Indonesia. The above-average education of the average American helps explain why the average American is not swayed by TV talking heads, why politicians are in constant fear of the famous and healthy American dissent and why books outsell tabloid magazines any given day.

As to the country's politicians, they make sure that the citizens are kept objectively informed by admitting to errors, disregarding partisan loyalties and being indifferent to their personal fortunes. This situation is helped by the fact that American voters have a chance to choose between candidates from the whole spectrum of political ideas, a choice that is denied to citizens of other western democracies who must choose among two or three parties sharing essentially the same ideology. What losers.

Of course, it helps that journalists and the media in the U.S. all take aim at the education of their readers, viewers and listeners and rarely succumb to frothy entertainment or mindless yahooism. The American citizen has only to open a newspaper, tune in to a radio station or turn on the TV to obtain reliable, plentyful and serious information, free of religious or political bigotry, about all that matters in the world. A superpower needs its citizens to be like this.

This is why spin in America never worked and never will.

[Cyrus]

"What does Europe think every time Yasser Arafat, archterrorist and one of the early members of the Muslim Brotherhood gets up and asks for peace and cohabitation with Jews?"

Arafat took part as an "equal" in numerous negotiations with the Israeli governments, under the guidance of the United States. There was a time when he was called, as you do now, a terrorist, by the Zionists in charge of Israel anf the Americans --- and no one else in the world. Even if Arafat actually was, as alleged, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood when very young, Arafat very quickly established himself as the leader of the (strictly secular) Palestinian Liberation Organisation, while the Fatah group he belonged to himself, was careful to distance itself from any kind of religious fundamentalism. Quite revealing of Arafat's "fanatical Muslim fundamentalism" is that he is married to a ..Christian woman.

You could conceivably accuse Yasser Arafat of having being a Marxist (he wasn't) but a Muslim terrorist? Never.

In this context, it should be known (although it isn't, due to spin) that the Palestinians have historically been among the most advanced Arabs, in matters of education and culture, which is why they were picked to staff many Arab leaders' consuls and ministries. Education is the arch-enemy of fanaticism and fundamentalism.

Arafat was a moderate leader of a genuine national liberation struggle. It is against Israel's interest that such people represent the Palestinians -- because this would mean that the Israelis would have to finally sit down and negotiate, which in turn means to compromise.

It is to Israel's interest that the "representatives" of Palestinians are faceless suicide-bombing fanatics, with whom any kind of negotiation is impossible. (A situation, which, in turn, perpetuates Israel's land grabs and confers the status quo upon us as a "given fact of life".)

Hence, the Israeli belligerence. And Israel's sense of omnipotence and utter contempt for anybody else in the world, including those suckers at Washington who were recently bitch-slapped by Ariel Sharon's brusque rejection of the Bush Roadmap To Peace. The Washington boys' face stings red but they will smile and say their "thank you's" as always.

--Cyrus