Should I go Pro?

[jokerthief]

I've only been playing poker for 9 months now but I have caught the poker bug like something fierce. I've logged 200K hands and have read 14 books. I started at .05/.10 and have worked myself up to 3/6 with an $1800 bankroll, all of which is profit. I've also withdrawn $1500 for books, software, and personal use. For the last 20k hands I averaged just over 2 BB/100 hands at 2/4.

I feel confident in my abilities and want to go pro but something disturbing caught my eye while browsing the card player magazine forum. One particular self proclaimed pro stated quite definitivly that no-one should consider playing on the internet for a living because it violates the terms of service and they could confiscate your bankroll. His definitive claim therefore is that one needs to beat midsized and up B&M limit games in order to make it professionally.

Is this paranoia or a real issue to be taken seriously by the aspiring pro? To me it makes all the difference in the world, I am in the middle of Wisconsin and have no access to midsized B&M games. I feel I can make an adaquet living multi-tabling 3/6 games on the internet and want nothing more than to do so. I have personal savings at a level where I can pay my expenses for a year without having to worry about dipping into my bankroll, so I feel like the time is right to make the jump. Can someone please enlighten me if my internet only professional pokerplaying ambition is feasible? Are there others out there who do it and do I need to fear the internet poker rooms noticing me?

Thanks in advance for any insights

[MicroBob]

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I've logged 200K hands

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For the last 20k hands I averaged just over 2 BB/100 hands at 2/4.


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What was your win-rate for the other 180k hands?

This is an IMPORTANT issue.
Your win-rate over 20k hands should NOT give you enough confidence to quit you current job.


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no-one should consider playing on the internet for a living because it violates the terms of service and they could confiscate your bankroll.

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lol. that's pretty funny.


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Is this paranoia or a real issue to be taken seriously by the aspiring pro?

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mostly paranoia. but the stability and legality of online poker in the US could be a legitimate issue. I'm not terribly worried about it however. And if the worst-case scenario really DOES happen I can always get a real job or go B&M or whatever my little heart desires.


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I feel I can make an adaquet living multi-tabling 3/6 games on the internet and want nothing more than to do so. I have personal savings at a level where I can pay my expenses for a year without having to worry about dipping into my bankroll,

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If you're good enough you can definitely do this.
I've been doing it mostly at 3/6 for a few months and am not a very good player....but good enough to beat the games semi-regularly.
Sounds like your bankroll is more than sufficient.


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Are there others out there who do it and do I need to fear the internet poker rooms noticing me?

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There are quite a few on these forums doing it. Burnout is a real issue though....you should have some idea about whether or not you will get REALLY tired of the online grind doing it 30-45 hours a week. some of those weeks will be nothing but quads-over-your-full-house type of bad-beat weeks.

you don't need to worry about the rooms having a problem with your play.
i suspect they put the 'entertainment' clause in there as a means to help keep it "more" legal in some countries.


there are some players on here playing 4-8 tables of 15/30 or 3/6 or whatever for mega-hours per week on various sites (mostly party and skins).
the sites ENCOURAGE high volume play. they will welcome you. i've never heard of a site having a problem with someone playing 'too much'.

whoever wrote that article is woefully out of touch.


If you're going to do it make sure you have all your bases covered regarding bankroll size and living expenses as well as a "fall-back".
In my case, I gave sufficient notice when I left my 'regular job' and the door was left open for me to return whenever i wanted/needed to.


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have read 14 books

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This is perhaps the sillyest part of your post.
A lot of newbies have come on here saying 'I've read this-and-that-and-the-other-one' etc etc etc.

If SSHE was one of your books.
Or if you read this book 14x you should be in pretty good shape.
If you have SERIOUSLY studied SSHE, HEFAP, HEP and TOP then you should do decently.

If you've been reading Krieger and Hellmuth and even Lee Jones over and over and over then I'm REALLY impressed that you were somehow able to squeeze out 2BB/100.

[jokerthief]

Thanks a lot for the clarifacation microbob, I really appreciate it. BTW, all those books are 2+2, except supersystem, including SSHE, TOP, HEP, and HEPAP. I don't trust anything much that is outside of the 2+2 sphere. If you have any recommendations outside of 2+2 I would be happy to listen.

Thanks again

[MicroBob]

Forgot to mention.....


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I am in the middle of Wisconsin and have no access to midsized B&M games.

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Teach some cows how to play and start up a 15/30 game.


I have a ton of family in Madison (was born there) and an aunt in Wausau.

[kylemontero]

How much to you want to make a year playing?

If you play 4 tables of 3/6 for 5 hours a day you can make $40,000 pretty easy If you just win 1 big bet of each table per hour.

[JimRivett]

Hello jokerthief,

I'm new to internet poker, however I've played live, mid limit, for the past 30 years or so, not professionally, just as a hobby/pasttime/social thing. According to my stats I'm a winning player. Well at the beginning of August I deposited $200 into a Party Poker account, now in late September, less than 2 months I have almost $3,000. I started playing .50/1.00, moved very quickly to 1/2, again very quickly to 2/4, 12,000 hands later I moved to 3/6. I found very few differences in the .50/1, 1/2 and 2/4 games, however the 3/6 games are tougher, of course still beatable, but they are tougher because you find a higher number of better players in the games.

Now all of this may seem like a lot of words, but what I'm trying to say, if you want to go pro, then good for you, amd I'll wish you every success, but you may want to try the 3/6 waters prior to quitting your current job. If your're successful and you can project you winnings making you a comfortable lifestyle then you're decision has been made.

I'm friendly with a very successful professioal player, he made the comment to me a few weeks ago that to be successful at poker, he's talking live poker, you have to be a winning player at (at least) the 100/200 level. By successful he was referring to getting married, buying a home, and living a comfortable lifestyle.

I don't know if any of this helps, I'm not trying to preach, I'm just asking to think about it.

btw, I can't imagine the online poker sites caring one way or another if you're a pro or not, I believe they are located off shore and are not bound by US laws.

Hope everything works out the way you want it to.

Regards,
Jim

[kylemontero]

Many live players dont realize that now we do not need to play 15/30 or higher to make a living. Now we can play 2/4 or 3/6 and make the same 30-40 bucks an hour without a bigger bankroll or the swings that occur playing 20/40. And If you are like some of the guys on this site playing 4-8 tables of 15/30 sky's the limit on what they can make.
8 tables an hour of 15/30 should net a decent player $240 bucks an hour, if he plays 6 hours a day thats $1440 a day. So If he plays 30 hours a week thats around $7200 a week. It seems 2 good 2 be true but that is winnind just 1 big bet an hour and I know many players on here win about 1.5/100 hands played.

[RacersEdge]

How would the tax side of this endeavor work? Could that be a red flag when you fill out your taz forms - or if you suddenly aren't playing taxes?

[JimRivett]

Hello RacersEdge,

By law you are obligated to pay taxes, how much you pay is mired in a grey area. The only pro I know well enough to discuss these matters has told me he keeps accurate records and declares it all to the IRS. I believe the majority of his playing is live, however I know he plays online also.

Jim

[JimRivett]

Hello kylemontero,

I have to agree with you on the advantages of on-line play with regards to the number of hands you are dealt, the rake and no dealer tipping. I wouldn't be surprised if some losing live players paid less rake and did not tip dealers, they would become break even or slight winners.

The enormous number of hands you get dealt really amazed me, to the extent that I find myself not bothering to get into marginal situations. I play 2 games at once and they, the tables overlap on my screen monitor, and, as I'm sure you have all experienced when you are involved in two hands at once it can become a little harrowing! I'm investigating into getting a notepad with a screen resolution to support 4 screens. My son has a Dell which can do this. However playing EIGHT (8) tables at once, presumeably over two monitors, would be, for me at least, a real challenge!

Like I said I'm still new to internet play, I still have a lot to learn, and still need to get a notepad with a high screen resolution [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Regards, Jim