Pocket 7s on winner takes all SNG

[akira]

I was playing a winner takes all home SNG. It started at 10 people and got to 5 handed. Also I had come back from an extreme shortstack and now had 15K of chips. Blinds were at 500/1K:

UTG - 40K
Hero (MP) - 15K
LP - 10K
SB - 5K
BB - 30K

UTG and BB had been pretty LAG, and made some questionable calls and bluffs. LP and SB are been tight. Also it was raised pf about 40% of the time.

Hand gets dealt, UTG limps, I get pocket 7s. Is there any point in raising this 5XBB to try to steal it, or should I just limp to try to flop a set? I wouldn't think of raising it 10 handed, but how good are pocket 7s in a 5 handed game??

Flop results to follow...

[Gator]

I limp - not only because you are at best a coin flip if called, but oppty exists to extract value.
That said, you need to have game plan if raised. Against smaller stacks I probably call and push on flop (unless a or k flops or unless they push preflop in which case i might call). I probably get out of way of large stack if he raises 4K or more preflop.

[rybones]

I really do not like limping here. you want the blinds with this hand. it is likely the best hand right now but will likely not be the best hand after the flop. If it is the best hand now, make others pay to get a card that will improve their hand. I say raise 3xbb. This will also show strength so if your set does not hit, you can still semi bluf. after the flop, if it is checked to you bet the pot. if you are the first to act, bet the pot. you will likely take it down. 5 handed it is not uncommon for the flop to miss everyone. if it has, you want to look like you did hit it or you had big pocket pairs before the flop. If you see a raise before you act then you can fold. if someone calls or raises your bet then it it time to shut down.

as usual, these are just my thoughts and any comments are welcome.


Ryan

[Gator]

I like to limp with middle pairs with the following two exceptions:

1. It’s too expensive to do so – i.e. party SNG $1,000 stack and blinds are 200/400
2. Table has shown history of punishing limpers with large reraises (in which case you combat this by limping with big hands)

I think this is borderline too expensive/not too expensive. It’s not an outrageous percent of chips to limp with by any means.

This hand could give you a chance to double up with set or make a play for the pot depending upon flop and number of callers.

I’ve also got a theory that large stacks don’t like to have their blinds stolen (and this could just be a story in my head).

Example: Large stack has KsJs in this hand. He’s certainly not going to fold with a raise to $3,000. However, with a limp, he might check his big blind here. On the other hand, if hero raises to $3K he might go over the top with a $3K to $6K raise to see if hero wants to play for all of his chips. It may not work that way in real life, but it’s one of the factors I contemplate.

[rybones]

[ QUOTE ]
Example: Large stack has KsJs in this hand. He’s certainly not going to fold with a raise to $3,000. However, with a limp, he might check his big blind here. On the other hand, if hero raises to $3K he might go over the top with a $3K to $6K raise to see if hero wants to play for all of his chips. It may not work that way in real life, but it’s one of the factors I contemplate.



[/ QUOTE ]

humph, I guess in game situations I might have thought about this, but I can not recall specifically. I think this is definately something to think about and it is a line I might try given the rights circumstances.

That said, if the big stack does re-raise, I might just push all-in here depending on my read. Only 5 handed I think 7,7 is good and if I win the coin flip I am in really great shape. However, This really is read dependent. If I think it is just a coin flip or he is testing me with nothing at all, then I might -- empasize MIGHT -- push all in. However, if he got his stack with really tight play then I may fold. then again maybe he has been weak tight unless the really hits. If that is the case, I might put him on 8,8 to J,J or big tickets. I still think the raise shows strenght and you have position over the big stack so you get to see what he does on the flop before you bet so a call might be ok. Again, this is all so read dependent.

So, I guess I haven't really said anything? but at least this gives me some things to think about when I am trying to read someone in this situation.

anyway these are just my thoughts.

Ryan

[akira]

[ QUOTE ]
I really do not like limping here. you want the blinds with this hand. it is likely the best hand right now but will likely not be the best hand after the flop. If it is the best hand now, make others pay to get a card that will improve their hand. I say raise 3xbb. This will also show strength so if your set does not hit, you can still semi bluf. after the flop, if it is checked to you bet the pot. if you are the first to act, bet the pot. you will likely take it down. 5 handed it is not uncommon for the flop to miss everyone. if it has, you want to look like you did hit it or you had big pocket pairs before the flop. If you see a raise before you act then you can fold. if someone calls or raises your bet then it it time to shut down.

as usual, these are just my thoughts and any comments are welcome.
Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking more along these lines as well, and decided to raise 5XBB to try to steal. However, the two large stacks, BB and UTG, ended up calling my raise. The flop came As Ah Ts. BB checks, and UTG raises all in. Is this an autofold even though UTG is a bit LAG, or can I think about calling here especially since the pot now has 15K?

Note that I have seen both BB and UTG make some questionable calls all night..

As far as preflop, after some thought maybe it would have been better to limp. The larger stacks seemed to be more loose and cold called a lot of raises. Also, this raise left me in a very difficult position postflop because unless I hit a set I probably won't know where I stand with overcards. This is more difficult given that the big stacks were somewhat LAG and one of them would have bluffed the pot either way, probably put me all in even with a small pot. How do you guys play these situations? Does anyone like to keep the pots small against these types of LAG players with big stacks (unless you have a monster hand like AA/KK/AK)?

[rybones]

without looking again at stack sizes (actually, I don't think it is relavant anymore) I would have to say two callers and then a big raise before it gets to you on the flop and it is, as you say, and auto fold. On that note, I think you could have saved yourself some money by only raising 2 or 3xbb. My guess is that the results would have been the same: 2 callers and one big bet on the dangerous flop and you fold. The difference is you saved 2 or 3xbb.

again, just my thoughts,

ryan

[akira]

[ QUOTE ]
On that note, I think you could have saved yourself some money by only raising 2 or 3xbb. My guess is that the results would have been the same: 2 callers and one big bet on the dangerous flop and you fold. The difference is you saved 2 or 3xbb.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it is better to bet 4-5XBB after limpers? Or is that for multiple limpers as opposed to a single one?

Although in this case I was pretty sure UTG would have definitely called another 2XBB, especially being the large stack.. I was hoping he had a marginal hand where he wouldn't call 5XBB.

As far as postflop, I made a bad decision and called his all in b/c I thought he was bluffing. He flipped over AJo - I was pretty surprised, I was expecting an Ace crappy kicker at best the way he played it. I seem to do a lot better in online tourneys as opposed to live ones, my live reads seem to be off and I don't make good decisions especially in making folds and giving people credit for a good hand, I need to work on that..

[durron597]

I haven't read the replies yet, but if UTG and BB are LAG then you can probably get them to pay you off if you hit a set, and you can't bet enough to get them to fold. I would limp here and play this hand for set value. (But if the flop comes 6-4-2 or something feel free to bet).