Tuning my VP$IP - andvise needed...

[Akimka]

After some time i come to conclusion that i play slightly more hands than needed. My VP$IP is about 21% but i heard that on 1/2 - 2/4 games 18-19% vpip is more profitable. So i have question - what might get an axe? And what hands in which position? I can't determine it by myself because of my sample is not relevant (about 25K hands) and some EV+ hands/situation can be thrown off...

And another question - i got some HUGE money eaters like:

JTs - vpip 76.39 - (0.64)BB/hand
A6s - vpip 50
A8s - vpip 67.69
A3s - vpip 39
, 54s, 75s and lot of same suited hands...

I definatly have problems with suited ace - may be i play it wrong after flop?

So please advertise how and where to play this hands? May be i overplay this hands too much?

Here is some samples:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, CO folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

[Trix]

I dont openlimp in MP. Either its good enough to raise or its not..

I fold both of the hands preflop..

[HajiShirazu]

After the first two or three people have folded, I would recommend not limping in with the suited aces first in, so if you play, raise them, although you shouldn't raise the low Axs hands until CO or button. If you cant get either multiway action, or heads-up with position and initiative, avoid Axs. The same goes with the small suited hands although you usually shouldn't be raising those anywhere.
Axs is a poor hand to hold when you are out of position and someone has raised behind you.

[Peter Harris]

having seen replies telling you to fold (and they are entirely correct, you want multiway action or LP openraising), i thought i'd comment on the play:

Hand 1: you shouldn't be betting here, check-calling for a club, 6 or A on the turn allows you to be aggressive. 6's with A kicker doesn't.

Hand 2: why, oh why, oh why are you not raising the flop with the nut flush draw??? 3-handed means the player may be betting 8's or a lower draw, and if you're 3-bet they may have a king. Your raising with the draw is not ostensibly for value (there aren't enough players in the pot), but it sets you up for an A or club, and even a K to bluff if you aren't 3-bet on the flop or bet into on the turn.

Comments welcome.

Regards,
Pete Harris

[derick]

Nice use of Pokertracker to identify weak areas!

I'm a beginner so I hope I don't come across as a know-it-all.

A6s and other small suited aces are multiplayer-get-a-nut-flush-draw hands. If you can't be sure you can get lots of people into the hand or a big pot fold them pre-flop. Their value comes from getting a nut flush draw to a big pot with many opponents.

These are the hands that cause your opponents to go on tilt. On r.g.p they complain loudly that they are a genius who should be playing 100/200 because everytime they get trips in .5/1 somebody get's a river flush.

In both cases you don't have multplayers (yet) or a big pot so I would have folded preflop. As it turned out you ended up playing multiplayer so that part worked out ok for you.

I don't see why you raised with middle pair top kicker backdoor flush on the flop in the first example? Did you have best hand? I would have checked.


I'm just a beginner so if I'm off base please correct my analysis.

[flair1239]

In my opinion both those hands are folds. Remember with speculative hands, you need to have company and be in an unraised pot (for the most part).

I know it is fashinable to play small suited aces up front. However in order for this to be profitable you need, to have a good table read. You need to be almost certain that 1. You will get at least (2) callers behind you (excluding the blinds) 2. That it is unlikely that you will be raised.

In my experience at PP 1/2, it was suprising to see, that thus far many of those tables do not have favorable conditions to playing hands like these up front. I find myself releasing many more small Axs and small pocket pairs from EP and EMP than I did at .5/1.

So I would say you have identified a leak in your game that you can now fix.

If you happen to be going by a starting chart throw it away. If you read the PF section of SSH, it does an excellent job discussing the various types of hands and gives excellent suggestions for when and how they should be played. However, I would not really committ to either of the starting charts in that book either.

[Akimka]

I would like to thank all you who answered me to my concerns... Now i'm sure that i misplay my suited cards. It become because of huge sign 'YOU HAVE GREAT ADVANTAGE WITH SUITED HAND IN LOOSE GAME' flashes in my mind every time when cards in my pocket was same suit... And i must confess - yes, i used SSH tables in my actiual games. I don't think they overral poor and useless - it's only needed to adjust them to real playing enviroment.

And i got one question about hand #2 and A-flush draws in general - is it mandatory to raise on flop with this hands? I never raise with flush draw other than button because i worry to throw out people after me. Is it wrong?

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
I never raise with flush draw other than button because i worry to throw out people after me. Is it wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on how many limpers as well as the type of players behind you. Have you read SSH? It would help a ton.

[flair1239]

[ QUOTE ]
And i must confess - yes, i used SSH tables in my actiual games. I don't think they overral poor and useless - it's only needed to adjust them to real playing enviroment.



[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify, I do not think that they are poor. It is just that the conditions that they assume are not always present even on PP 1/2. Even the tight game standards can be a little loose at for PP 1/2.

Also keep in mind that I do not table hop to find these favorable conditions. From what I have seen at PP 1/2 it is not unusual to see (2) callers against the Big Blind on a consistent basis.

So when conditions warrant the SSH charts are probably very profitable. I am just saying that you have to be pretty sure of the environment before you apply them.

[Akimka]

Well... I actually is table-hopping - i track table and players in game time window and looking for tables with average VP$IP &gt; 30% and PF raise &lt; 5%. I go out from tables with VPIP &lt; 25%...