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Old 09-21-2004, 02:28 PM
WinBig WinBig is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 22
Default Bad timing or bad steal attempt?

About 130 players left in the Super Monday on Party with top 100 cashing. I'm not all that interested in stalling until the money. I have about 6000 and I have not been doing hardly any stealing as I was card cold but had just recently doubled up with QQ vs JJ. I am in ok shape relative to the blinds which if I recall correctly were 300/600.

It is folded to me in late position and I raise to 1700 and only the big blind calls. The big blind is one of the big stacks at the table and didn't appear to be playing a lot of hands.

Flop was 7 high rainbow and BB checked. I bet half the pot hoping to take it right there and was immediately raised to 3400. At this point my options are all-in or fold since calling does not accomplish anything. I fold after some deliberation and the BB shows pocket KK.

I think my preflop raise is ok since I need to steal some blinds to build my stack. A9 in late position with it folded to me is a pretty good spot for a steal in my opinion. I think I just got plain unlucky that the BB woke up with a monster hand.

Was I wrong to try and make this steal against one of the big stacks? Should I have bet the flop since it appeared to miss the caller even though I only had two overcards? I think the flop bet was ok and the BB just played the check-raise to perfection. The blinds ate me up pretty quickly after this hand and I got knocked out in 115th place.
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  #2  
Old 09-21-2004, 03:43 PM
The Venetian The Venetian is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Default Re: Bad timing or bad steal attempt?

Bad Timing.

The way you describe the hand, I would have raised pre-flop as well. I think the mistake may have been the half-pot bet to take it on the flop, especially if you don't believe the opponent is going to make loose calls on his BB.

If, as you say, you're not concerned about just slipping into the money, pushing all-in on the flop (4300 stack, pot = 1700+1700+300 = 3700) could be acceptable, though obviously, here, you would have been dead to your three outs with two cards to come.

You could also play it safe and check through, but you might be setting yourself up for a difficult turn if he bets out and you miss.

Anyway, back to the original question: not all big stacks are created equally. Some are LAG's, but a lot of them are good, solid players who know how to fold their BB when they should. Don't assume that just because he has a big stack, he's going to try and mess with you. At this point in the tournament and given your observation that he's not playing a lot of hands, I'd be more likely to make that pre-flop raise and trust that call as meaning "something". What that "something" is, tough to say.

Tough situation. A lot of good players would have trouble with this one, in my opinion.
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2004, 03:45 PM
Nick B. Nick B. is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 174
Default Re: Bad timing or bad steal attempt?

Why are you messing with the big stack. It is ok to check the flop once in a while when you miss. You only have ace high against a player that can bust you.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2004, 04:38 PM
WinBig WinBig is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 22
Default Re: Bad timing or bad steal attempt?

That is the part I am having trouble with. The big stack could easily take a shot at reraising me with any two here if he sensed weakness in my flop bet. That is why I am wondering if the flop bet was a good idea against a big stack. I could have taken a free card here and folded to any bet on the turn if an A didn't show and still had 8xBB. Instead I took a shot at the pot and ended up with a stack of 4xBB and got myself into a difficult spot.
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